23-07-2005 17:59									#1
	New Close-up Screens at Gaming Horizon Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

http://news.gaminghorizon.com/media...62580.1653.html

Certainly interesting, I wonder what modern cities will be like?

	23-07-2005 18:30									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Wow! Those look so cool. Although it does scream for some scaling to the units...

	23-07-2005 20:36									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Hmm I will have to get used to the new graphics...I did expect more in that area but I'm sure I will get used to it

	23-07-2005 20:47									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Lambiorix_be Hmm I will have to get used to the new graphics...I did expect more in that area but I'm sure I will get used to it

I felt the same when I saw the first game footage. "Argh! I'll have to get used to this..."
Now, I kinda like it!

Boy, I'll love this game!.

	23-07-2005 22:35									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Same as the gamespot thing.

	23-07-2005 23:02									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Well the good thing is you will not need a top line computor to play. A 128MB video card should work without a problem.
But I like the way it looks so far. Another factor is you will never have to worry about your eyes getting sore from flashing objects on screen like SMAC . Couldnt play more than a hour.

	24-07-2005 00:20									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

It appears that the full zoom in shows the units towering over the buildings....

Looks like a nice level of detail is incorporated into the buildings and other features. The perspective is also pleasing.

	24-07-2005 04:53									#8
	Tired of ads?

Well I don't think many people will be playing zoomed in so close.

	24-07-2005 05:08									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Anyways, it's fugly that close ! It looks like some bad N64 game.

	24-07-2005 05:16									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I think it looks really cool that close in.

	24-07-2005 05:32									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Trust me: Firaxis will regret this zoomable, 3D goofball of a graphics catastophe. Only the modders can save it now.

	24-07-2005 07:05									#12
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Trust me

Why?

	24-07-2005 07:48									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by yin26 Trust me: Firaxis will regret this zoomable, 3D goofball of a graphics catastophe. Only the modders can save it now.

Is it because you think that it will require good computer to run nicely?

	24-07-2005 08:43									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

It looks like Black&White. And I hope it's the only thing in common

	24-07-2005 09:15									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

That city looked like it occupied more than one square.

	24-07-2005 09:55									#16
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by yin26 Trust me: Firaxis will regret this zoomable, 3D goofball of a graphics catastophe. Only the modders can save it now.

Man... you really are a glass entirely empty kind of person aren't you .

It looks fine to me, and who in the world will be playing with the zoom that close.

	24-07-2005 09:58									#17
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Computer geeks and american women opening lawsuits after finding out the german barbarians have nipples

	24-07-2005 15:42									#18
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Man... you really are a glass entirely empty kind of person aren't you . It looks fine to me, and who in the world will be playing with the zoom that close.

	24-07-2005 16:21									#19
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Their is a Pyrimid in that zoomed in City and I must say it looks Disapointingly Small, Wonder buildings should be BIGGER then the little Huts that form the rest of the Village. Their is also a Blue building bearing a striking Resemblence to the Dome of the Rock, presumably it is a Islamic Shrine. I certanly hope we do not need to zoom this close to See the Buildings we have in a city. A city can easily have 20 buildings in it by the late game so I am interesting in how they will fit all this in while suposedly achiving the ability to see the cities contents without opening a City managment Window (which so far we haven't seen). I wonder if they have not yet perfect it as its a very important part of the interface and would typicaly be one of the first things to show.

	24-07-2005 18:07									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

No, I don't think this has anything to do with needing a powerful computer. It's my opinon (I'm allowed to have it, right?) that zooming in and out of maps like this simply isn't going to help the gameplay. Indeed, I think it muddles it, what with units that run around the map bigger than mountains or wonders, and for what? So you can zoon in to blotchy graphics that are so narrowly focused what kind of strategic decision can it possibly help you make?

Civ 4 should have stayed (updated) 2D, paid far more attention to scale, and showcased what's inside your city via a separate (2D) screen. In the end, I think the zoomability will be ignored within a few dozen turns, and the entire graphical scheme will simply get in the way of actually trying to make strategic decisions.

	24-07-2005 19:25									#21
	Full PM-box? Change here!

yin26, you are flat out wrong, and I am someone who you can't argue with.


3D will lesson the restrictions on modding; Firaxis see Civ4 as something that can and should be modded, they are just setting the defaults. So 2D would have been a terrible mistake; what can't be modded with Civ3 that we haven't already thought of? Exactly, 2D has lots of restrictions.

	24-07-2005 19:36									#22
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Like?

	24-07-2005 20:02									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Sn00py: As long as your argument is that 3D makes it easier for modders to fix this mess, then I agree with you. But if the argument is what approach would Firaxis itself have been more successful with out the door, the I stand by my 2D argument. It will take guys like you months and months to address what I see are the shortcomings of this 3D smoke screen.

In the end, by the way, I'm not even convinced that modders like you will be able to disguise the fact that a game like this doesn't need the ability to zoom in to pixelated cities, etc. Of course, I 'm looking forward to you shrinking these giants that walk the land, etc., but the very fact that we're depending on modders before the game is even released should tell you something.

	24-07-2005 20:58									#24
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Scaled-down units will be hard to distinguish within cities. Any sensible player will simply use filters instead of scaled-down units.

The reason why units are giants is because you can clearly manipulate them when the "unit" filter is active, i.e when you're dealing with the military aspect fo the game.

	24-07-2005 21:18									#25
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Sn00py 3D will lesson the restrictions on modding; Firaxis see Civ4 as something that can and should be modded, they are just setting the defaults. So 2D would have been a terrible mistake; what can't be modded with Civ3 that we haven't already thought of? Exactly, 2D has lots of restrictions.

Old robot saying... "does not compute." The game is 2-d. Making its presentation 3-d doesn't affect anything other than its presentation. This isn't like Doom (1/2) vs. Quake, where the actual gameplay shifted from 2-d to 3-d. What are these restrictions that you imagine? It makes some things harder to see and some things easier to see. Hopefully, it more than balances out overall, but it's just the interface. It won't make things easier for modders, because now they will have to produce more complicated and detailed models than before.

	24-07-2005 23:17									#26
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Scaled-down units will be hard to distinguish within cities. Any sensible player will simply use filters instead of scaled-down units. The reason why units are giants is because you can clearly manipulate them when the "unit" filter is active, i.e when you're dealing with the military aspect fo the game.

Bingo... the Units HAVE to be giants, because you have to click them and use there. Small units are worthless.

	24-07-2005 23:44									#27
	Got spare money?

quote: @yin26: In the end, I think the zoomability will be ignored within a few dozen turns, and the entire graphical scheme will simply get in the way of actually trying to make strategic decisions.

Ah, that's the civ veteran in you talking I agree that you won't zoom in and out the whole time when you're concentrated on your game, you want to get things done and that's it. The good thing is, you won't have to use the zoom. Use the old top-down view at a good distance and you're in business. The zoom is just really just EYE CANDY.

I am absolutely delighted about that - I used to spend a lot of time in my Civ3 games planting forest everywhere to make my territory pretty (hell, I even made maps in the editor to make sure mountains and hills were placed so that there were forests on them)...! Now I will even be able to zoom in and nearly walk through those forests...

	25-07-2005 00:24									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: The zoom is just really just EYE CANDY.

	25-07-2005 01:56									#29
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by yin26 No, I don't think this has anything to do with needing a powerful computer. It's my opinon (I'm allowed to have it, right?) that zooming in and out of maps like this simply isn't going to help the gameplay. Indeed, I think it muddles it, what with units that run around the map bigger than mountains or wonders, and for what? So you can zoon in to blotchy graphics that are so narrowly focused what kind of strategic decision can it possibly help you make?

That's a far cry from actually hurting the game...

quote: originally posted by yin Trust me: Firaxis will regret this zoomable, 3D goofball of a graphics catastophe. Only the modders can save it now.

And anyway, why should we trust you?

	25-07-2005 02:14									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

AeonOfTime: Yeah, I guess I'm looking at Day 4+ issues and not Day 1 excitement. I'm a party pooper that way.

Kuciwalker: First, it's a phrase people use. Second, I'm as qualified a prognosticator about these things as anybody else on these forums. Third, I encourage people to decide for themselves when they have the game in hand...and if I'm proved right, will that build trust? No, it won't. Those who are determined to write me off as a blow hard will find reasons to forget/explain away everything I've said anyway. Finally, I've been right on a number of issues in the past, but there is no guarantee this time, surely, so trust me or don't trust me.

I'll continue to use the phrase when the need strikes me, and I'll continue to post my thoughts as long as I'm interested in doing so. Nothing wrong with that, right?