28-07-2005 04:22									#31
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Aro Why? 18 civs, 40 names for each, equal to 720 names. No big deal. A secretary can do this. The receptionist at Firaxis building can do this?

It's not just typing out the names, which would be easy. It's finding the correct name and spelling for it, making sure it's a city and not a state or region or somesuch, finding out if it's just a modern name of an older city, and doing the necessary research to find the most important 40 cities.

	28-07-2005 04:22									#32
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by yin26 quote: Har, har, har. If you stated your opinion once, why do you state it again afterwards in a slightly different manner? Just helping people who don't/can't read, I guess. I'm helpful that way.

That's interesting, considering I was replying to sophist and not you.

	28-07-2005 04:24									#33
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Man, if you're drunk, I want some!

	28-07-2005 04:25									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

2D

	28-07-2005 04:29									#35
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by yin26 Man, if you're drunk, I want some!

Same goes for you. You obviously can't see the order of posts. You read it from the top to the bottom.

	28-07-2005 04:36									#36
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Lord Nuclear It's not just typing out the names, which would be easy. It's finding the correct name and spelling for it, making sure it's a city and not a state or region or somesuch, finding out if it's just a modern name of an older city, and doing the necessary research to find the most important 40 cities.

Yep. So... ?
Honestly, it not seems to be so difficult. A computer, someone with half-brain, one week and a broadband connection. What else is needed?

	28-07-2005 04:41									#37
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

This is awesome! It's like I'm on a drug talking to the Cheshire Cat! ...pulls up a chair, gets popcorn... Is this a train wreck or a burgeoning love story? Yin unpresses the pause button and sees if the following replay of court testimony leaves any clues...

Exhibit A: Lord quotes me:

quote: quote: Originally posted by yin26 Man. I love quoting so much of myself with you! Keeps me deeply engaged:

Exhibit B: Lord quotes me again in the same post:

quote: quote: 4. While my sense is that this is something an intern could fix and wouldn't therefore jeopardize work being done on the AI, etc., if push came to shove, this is a low priority as long as there's an understanding to fix it down the road.

Exhibit C: Lord ends these two quotes with the following:

quote: Har, har, har. If you stated your opinion once, why do you state it again afterwards in a slightly different manner?

Exhibit D: Oh, the plot twists don't stop there! He claims a few moments later:

quote: That's interesting, considering I was replying to sophist and not you.

Nope...he wasn't replying to me at all! He was just using my quotes to get back at Sophist. Genius. Ladies and gentlemen of the court, I submit to you that Sophist did it in the Library with the candle stick!

	28-07-2005 04:47									#38
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

(little excerpt from Alice in Wonderland, though the Poly version is better)

"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."

	28-07-2005 04:53									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Intern? That would be Trip, wouldn't it? j/k j/k

	28-07-2005 04:58									#40
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Lord Nuclear I have my doubts that there is anything like a "geography/history researcher." Firaxis isn't Blizzard or Bioware, and I'm sure they have a fairly tight budget. I think you over-estimate the amount of people that would be willing to research around 720 names, and they run the risk of people leaking the information. This isn't about the capital of Russia, it's about obscure cities that the average person wouldn't know about.

Apparently you are confused, Yin. I replied this to sophist, but for some reason you replied to me stating "Once again, the Intern." Posting an elaborated opinion, then posting a small opinion strikes me as rather odd. You were the one who responded to something I said to sophist, not the other way around. Once again, I'm going to tell you to read the thread from the top to bottom, not vice-versa.

	28-07-2005 05:02									#41
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yep, I replied that to you because you were arguing the tight budget angle. Thus: The Intern. See? And I did it curtly like that to save time, assuming you'd actually read the stuff that has already been said. Anyway, I'm kooky with my assumptions. Bad habit.

I've got a contact high!

	28-07-2005 05:12									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by yin26 Yep, I replied that to you because you were arguing the tight budget angle. Thus: The Intern. See? And I did it curtly like that to save time, assuming you'd actually read the stuff that has already been said. Anyway, I'm kooky with my assumptions. Bad habit. I've got a contact high!

Except the fact that being curtly made it seem as if you were changing your opinion. You said yourself that if there were more important things to work on, then this would be a low-priority. And since I assume that the interns are fairly busy, then this WOULD be a low-priority item. You can't change your original statement just so there is absolutely nothing you will agree with me on.

	28-07-2005 05:15									#43
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Lord: Well, sorry if my curt version made you think I was changing my opinion. The whole thing was bizaare and funny. Carry on. Poly family. Hugs and kisses. It seems we agree anyway: Use the interns for this but only if there isn't something more important to be doing.

	28-07-2005 05:17									#44
	Inflate your Upload Space

I bet Firaxis will read this stuff, after all...

	28-07-2005 05:19									#45
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by yin26 Lord: Well, sorry if my curt version made you think I was changing my opinion. The whole thing was bizaare and funny. Carry on. Poly family. Hugs and kisses. It seems we agree anyway: Use the interns for this but only if there isn't something more important to be doing.

* Lord Nuclear gives a hug to Yin

	28-07-2005 05:19									#46
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Aro I bet Firaxis will read this stuff, after all...

That would be rather funny.

	28-07-2005 05:27									#47
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Lord Nuclear I have my doubts that there is anything like a "geography/history researcher." Firaxis isn't Blizzard or Bioware, and I'm sure they have a fairly tight budget. I think you over-estimate the amount of people that would be willing to research around 720 names, and they run the risk of people leaking the information. This isn't about the capital of Russia, it's about obscure cities that the average person wouldn't know about.

That assumes that there's one person who does all of the research. I can't think of a reason to do it that way. Besides, even if that was the case, there's no reason not to open it up to community discussion long in advance. It's the sort of thing that a platoon of Apolyton posters would get done in about 12 hours.

	28-07-2005 05:31									#48
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I have no doubt we could, but the Devs would still have to approve it, since we aren't employees of Firaxis.

	28-07-2005 07:49									#49
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

It's much less work to approve than to do.

	28-07-2005 08:02									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by sophist It's much less work to approve than to do.

Only slightly less work. They'd still need to re-check to see if the sources are reliable, and then to see if the Apolytoner's work is accurate based on the source. And since there would probably be multiple versions and arguments on the lists, how would Firaxis choose? The only way to do so would be to research the cities anyways.

	28-07-2005 18:31									#51
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well, given that, at least for India, the names are just plain wrong (and obviously not researched), approving an Apolytoner's list after glancing at a map or doing a Google search wouldn't be problematic at all.

My point is, Civ 4 needs to be as polished as possible. The developers have to keep doing what they're good at - working on AI etc. But, like you said, Firaxis isn't Blizzard, and there are bound to be some areas, especially things like foreign cultures etc. in a game of global scope, that are unfamiliar to the developers. In such instances, a wider community (eg. Apolyton) can help, and I'm sure Firaxis would appreciate the "proof-reading" suggestions we offer (definitely more than "Hey, I think you need to rip this feature out and replace it with this").

Indian cities is something I know about, so I posted a better list. Others have probably noticed inaccuracies in other parts of the game (cities of other civs? leader names? civilopedia entries?), and should post them too. It can't do any harm.

	28-07-2005 20:30									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Lord Nuclear Only slightly less work. They'd still need to re-check to see if the sources are reliable, and then to see if the Apolytoner's work is accurate based on the source. And since there would probably be multiple versions and arguments on the lists, how would Firaxis choose? The only way to do so would be to research the cities anyways.

Apolytoners plural. They wouldn't need to completely check the work because they could rely on the community to do that for them. If there's a hint that one is wrong, someone would point it out. I think you underestimate the reliability of the community in doing something like this. Yeah, maybe it wouldn't be perfect, but it'd be a substantial improvement. I don't see where the problem is. The choice is between something sucky and something good (but not perfect) at little cost.

	28-07-2005 21:21									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by sophist Apolytoners plural. They wouldn't need to completely check the work because they could rely on the community to do that for them. If there's a hint that one is wrong, someone would point it out. I think you underestimate the reliability of the community in doing something like this. Yeah, maybe it wouldn't be perfect, but it'd be a substantial improvement. I don't see where the problem is. The choice is between something sucky and something good (but not perfect) at little cost.

Agreed

	28-07-2005 23:37									#54
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yep, they could have posted the cites that they already have and ask for our opinion. I am sure we have a lot of collective knowledge here.

FIRAXIS, CAN YOU HEAR US?

	02-08-2005 22:23									#55
	Increase the size of your Attachments

And another thing - if the Iroquois are still in (forgive me for not keeping up with who's in and who's out), they need a decent city list too. Salamanca? St. Regis? Oil Springs? How did those get by?

	03-08-2005 07:10									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Aro I bet Firaxis will read this stuff, after all...

Nah, probably not.

Hmm... "The Intern"...

	03-08-2005 19:24									#57
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by LordShiva And another thing - if the Iroquois are still in (forgive me for not keeping up with who's in and who's out), they need a decent city list too. Salamanca? St. Regis? Oil Springs? How did those get by?

Presumably on the principle they didn't have 'cities' as such, and that North American Indian languages can be absolutely fiendish to learn, pronounce and write.

Ergo, modern place names have to do. Equally, the names for cities in India ae the older inaccurate British Empire ones- Bombay, Calcutta, and so on.

And would you really want to see Celtic cities or sites in the original ? Almost as bad in some cases as the American Indian languages.


And let's hope that the lists of great leaders or figures are more accurate than they were before- having an 'English' Wallace.

	03-08-2005 20:34									#58
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

So true, molly.

	03-08-2005 22:24									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by molly bloom Equally, the names for cities in India ae the older inaccurate British Empire ones- Bombay, Calcutta, and so on.

Inaccurate might a little strong. Those names are still in common usage.

quote: Originally posted by molly bloom And would you really want to see Celtic cities or sites in the original ? Almost as bad in some cases as the American Indian languages.

I think it would be pretty funny to have city names like Crwthnmbwlc.

	03-08-2005 23:15									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by molly bloom And let's hope that the lists of great leaders or figures are more accurate than they were before- having an 'English' Wallace.

For real... It's not like England doesn't have enough great leaders to choose from.