30-07-2005 13:30									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Toby Rowe I want the Unionist lot to announce the same- better still, also announce the existance of them, and the link they also share like Sinn Fein does.

errr unlike sinn fein, neither of the two main unionist parties has links to paramilitaries

	30-07-2005 14:31									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus What? Why are you putting the boot in? I don't see any crass or moronic going on?

Well read the ****ing thread then. Or do you think the reactions to the Admin tosser's comments by C0ckney and myself are some sort of spontaneous art gesture?

It takes a very special sort of person to make a post like...

quote: Originally posted by MarkG i love the choice of words from BBC quote: During the Northern Ireland Troubles, the IRA murdered about 1,800 civilians and members of the security forces. "Troubles", "murdered".....

...and include that happy smiling face after the "murdered". And, God bless us, in the co-owner of this site we have just that special sort of person.

	30-07-2005 14:42									#63
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Lazarus and the Gimp, I think you have to read Marks first post with a sense of Irony. To a none english speaker calling the death of thousands of people over 30-40 years 'the Troubles' probably seems like a quaint british super understatement.

Thats all he meant by it i'm 100% sure. As a welshman with sympathies for the Irish and Scots under brutal english rule at various times in the past, i didn't find his statement in the context of being not from here insulting.

As a british person with an admiration for what the english and britain have done in helping develope the world i wasn't offended either

Still this thread is about the very good news of a possible real end to the 'troubles' Lets get positive about that

	30-07-2005 14:49									#64
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor Lazarus and the Gimp, I think you have to read Marks first post with a sense of Irony. To a none english speaker calling the death of thousands of people over 30-40 years 'the Troubles' probably seems like a quaint british super understatement.

And what's "murders"? A twee little cream-tea euphemism?

	30-07-2005 15:01									#65
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well from his later posts he seemed a little confused over why you were so angry at his remark. So i would take it as an honest mistake on his part - i doubt he would be laughing at people being killed........thats all.
You seemed very upset - so i was just trying to put a different perspective for you, the one i had when i read the posts here.
But its ok if you want to feel angry at him - thats up to you+him to sort out

	30-07-2005 15:05									#66
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG i'm sure some northern irish dont feel like it's a simple "trouble"....

Funny how my friends from Northern Ireland and relatives in the Republic of Ireland also refer to the events as ' The Troubles '. Something for you to research perhaps, Marky, hmmm ?


As to when 'the war' started, chegitz....

quote: In 1939 the IRA began a bombing campaign in English cities. This was effectively over by 1941, with relatively few attacks having occurred. With internment without trial introduced in both states in Ireland the IRA was at a low ebb during this period. In 1949 in response to the British government's Ireland Act which reinforced partition all parties in the Irish parliament declared their unanimous opposition to partition. The same year the IRA issued an Order which forbade military action against the forces of the 26-County state. The early 1950s saw an anti-partition campaign conducted by Irish governments and supported by all parties in parliament. Its ineffectiveness in the face of the British government's indifference contributed to the renewal of the IRA. In the early to mid 50s raids for arms were carried out by the IRA on British installations in the Six Counties and Britain. This was in preparation for an armed campaign which was conducted between 1956 and 1962. Mainly confined to border areas the campaign saw attacks on border posts and other British military.

http://users.westnet.gr/~cgian/irahist.htm

The 1930s and 1950s also predate the 1960s and 1970s. You would be better off saying that after a hiatus or lull, the I.R.A. returned (not without Unionist provocation) to the armed struggle.

It's hardly something from which either side comes away covered in glory or honour. Gerry-mandering and police collaboration in political murders on one side, and indiscriminate bombings of civilians and bank robberies in Eire on the other.

	30-07-2005 15:39									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I have an idea. The Troubles were a terrible period for Northern Ireland, and it created much suffering in Britain as well. Like it sometimes happen when a catastrophe befells a family, the Brits have given the modest name "The Troubles" to something much worse, as in not to even strengthen the woes by giving them an actual name. But everybody knew what was behind this modest name. And "The Troubles" weren't a joking matter anymore. These words are a sensitive chord, and by biggrinning with them, you are hitting it. By insisting, you are double-whammying on it. I'm not a rosbif, so I may be wrong. But it sounds like a possible explanation.

well i've already said i'm not close to british politics in the first place. i'm glad someone took the time to provide some info for me. thank you

	30-07-2005 15:41									#68
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It would be like making fun of Greece's period of dictatorship from '67 to '74.

i didnt make fun of any period. i made a comment on the use of these words. nothing further.

as for '67-74, we call it as it was: "junta", "dictatorship", etc....

	30-07-2005 15:45									#69
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor To a none english speaker calling the death of thousands of people over 30-40 years 'the Troubles' probably seems like a quaint british super understatement.

AMEN!

	30-07-2005 15:51									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp ...and include that happy smiling face after the "murdered". And, God bless us, in the co-owner of this site we have just that special sort of person.

i guess your preconcieved image you had for me didnt allow you to read my first sentence in that post

quote: i love the choice of words from BBC

i was making a comment on the opposite levels of intension in the two words used by the BBC

a 30-year period of war : "troubles"
people being killed from the non-british side : "murdered"

somehow it striked me as an awkward choice of words.

i was OF COURSE not laughing at people geting murdered

	30-07-2005 15:56									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Bereta_Eder Marko is a rightie. He probably calls it "the revolution". (j/k)

it's been established in this forum that i'm a fascist communist with a capitalist agenda

btw, i served in the unit which Papadopoulos was commanding prior to '67. i guess being in the most distanced artillery unit pisses you off

	30-07-2005 16:02									#72
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG people being killed from the non-british side : "murdered" somehow it striked me as an awkward choice of words.

What non-British side ?



MarkG speak with tangled Hydra tongues.

	30-07-2005 21:54									#73
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom What non-British side ?

isnt irish = non-british?

i got it from post #50

	30-07-2005 22:04									#74
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maybe instead of from it is by the non british side?
i always make that mistake too. from=skoto8ikan stin bretaniki pleura. by=skoto8ikan apo tin bretaniki pleura.
mind you i havent even read the article so i may be far off

	30-07-2005 22:09									#75
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Interesting point. Britons(archaic) are considered the native population of the British Isles, but in Irelands case(not NI) im not sure if they class themselves as being british? Welsh+Scots+English definately do though.

	30-07-2005 22:10									#76
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it was "by"="apo"

quote: During the Northern Ireland Troubles, the IRA murdered about 1,800 civilians and members of the security forces.

	31-07-2005 20:12									#77
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG isnt irish = non-british? i got it from post #50

It is a misconception that the 'Irish Republican Army' was necessarily made up of Irishmen, or non-British recruits- odd 'Irishmen' that have British nationality and passports....


Although to be fair, it is a curious anomaly relating to the long intertwined history of the two islands that Irish emigres in the United Kingdom had voting rights and access to the benefits of British citizenship and that children born to Irish parents in the United Kingdom could claim dual citizenship.

	31-07-2005 22:01									#78
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How many Irish were killed by Unionist paramilitaries and British forces?

Anyway, it would be nice tho think that it is all over now. Doesw anyone know what Sein Fein plans now?

	01-08-2005 14:24									#79
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i saw a news report on tv which said that a parliement-like thing that was established after the good friday agreement was dismantled or something. what happened?

	01-08-2005 15:30									#80
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Ireland should be a united country. End of story.

	01-08-2005 17:00									#81
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no it shouldn't.

	01-08-2005 17:09									#82
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How about some sort of co-dominion over North Ireland? Residents could proclaim allegiance to either Great Britain or Eire. The area would be generally self-governing with assistance and supervision by a joint council established by Eire and the UK.

	01-08-2005 17:44									#83
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Ireland should form a anarcho-syndicalist commune!

WOMAN: We don't have a lord.
ARTHUR: What?
DENNIS: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We
take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the
week.
ARTHUR: Yes.
DENNIS: But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified
at a special biweekly meeting.
ARTHUR: Yes, I see.
DENNIS: By a simple majority in the case of purely internal
affairs,--
ARTHUR: Be quiet!
DENNIS: --but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more--
ARTHUR: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
WOMAN: Order, eh -- who does he think he is?
ARTHUR: I am your king!
WOMAN: Well, I didn't vote for you.
ARTHUR: You don't vote for kings.
WOMAN: Well, 'ow did you become king then?
ARTHUR: The Lady of the Lake, [angels sing] her arm clad in the
purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of
the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Arthur, was to
carry Excalibur. [singing stops] That is why I am your king!
DENNIS: Listen -- strange women lying in ponds distributing
swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive
power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some
farcical aquatic ceremony.
ARTHUR: Be quiet!
DENNIS: Well you can't expect to wield supreme executive power
just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
ARTHUR: Shut up!
DENNIS: I mean, if I went around sayin' I was an emperor just
because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me they'd
put me away!
ARTHUR: Shut up! Will you shut up!
DENNIS: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.
ARTHUR: Shut up!
DENNIS: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
HELP! HELP! I'm being repressed!
ARTHUR: Bloody peasant!
DENNIS: Oh, what a give away. Did you hear that, did you hear
that, eh? That's what I'm on about -- did you see him repressing
me, you saw it didn't you?

	01-08-2005 17:47									#84
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I think once we have a sustained period of peace, then the people of Ireland(from both sides) will be able to live in peace as they mostly want to. In that time the hate mongers will hopefuly die of old age too, so the younger generations can get on with a normal life atlast.
It was a strange sight to see on the news last night, the british army dismantleing its watch towers.
A positive sight though

	01-08-2005 18:00									#85
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All that is required is for people like this to die out:

" Watch the Jews....Israel is on the way back to favour....watch the Papist Rome rising to a grand crescendo with the Communists. The Reds are on the march. They are heading for an alliance against the return of the Lord Jesus Christ."


The 'Revd.' Ian Paisley, Belfast Telegraph, 4th February 1967


The D.U.P. Conference in June 1978 had a motion from the floor which condemned 'blasphemous & pornographic reading materials in secondary schools on the exam syllabus'.

They had in mind that Larry Flynt classic:

Of Mice And Men.

It contains apparently 16 blasphemous sentences, 26 mentions of the word bastard, and 'son of a b itch' 29 slang references to hell, one mention of rape and one of attempted rape. Godd thing they haven't read The Bible...

Kilkeel D.U.P. also objected to 'The Sound of Music' because of its 'distinct Romanist trend'.

	01-08-2005 18:07									#86
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quote: Originally posted by C0ckney no it shouldn't.

why not ?

PS : i saw the documantaries too and i fail to see a legitimate basis for the uninonist claim.

	01-08-2005 18:27									#87
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My solution to Northern Ireland was to lease it to the People's Republic of China for 100 years in a kind of reverse-Hong Kong.

	01-08-2005 18:28									#88
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dan, i think as you want to change the status quo, it's your case to make.

edit: damn x-posters!

	01-08-2005 19:11									#89
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how come ?

i definitely am less invloved in the conflict than you are. i am from the continent remember.

but ok, the way i see it, is that unionists stand to lose their status as a priviledged minority (if they haven't lost it already) if a reunification occurs. but what i fail to see is why the unionists seem to have such a power over your parliament. what is the big problem in letting the irish in northern ireland decide by majority what they want.

	01-08-2005 19:29									#90
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Unionists are the majority in Northern Ireland...

Even though I dislike the Orange Order, you have to give them credit for still existing. I mean, it's like having Jacobites or Chartists still around.