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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:37
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Now this isn't political talk. This is true. Any time of the year it's a time of sorrow and sadness when we lose a loss of life.
See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.
The American people now are beginning to realize we have a serious problem when it comes to Toga and Emperor Harry Houdini.
And that problem begins with people like all of you and me.
Now I went to the Congress last September and proposed fundamental -- supplemental funding, which is money for armor and body parts....
and I appreciated the spirit of Republicans and Democrats comin' together. But it isn't a 70, uh, a 5 year fix. This is 1943. We're only in 1945.
I want to remind you all that in order to fight and win the war, it requires an expenditure of money that is commiserate with keeping a promise to our troops.
Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.
This notion that the US is getting ready to attack Mexico is simply ridiculous. And having said that, all options are on the table. A submarine could take that place out.
But to paraphrase President Harding, there's America, and then there's Texas. We have great relations with the Vichy.
We work closely with the Vichy government on a lot of issues and in my judgment, when the United States says there will be serious consequences, and if there isn't serious consequences, it creates adverse consequences.
And finally, I say unto to you, my fellow Americans, security is the essential roadblock to achieving the road map to peace.
May the Lord make me truly thank you. Good night, and now I'm looking forward to a good night's sleep on the soil of a friend.
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:37
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George W. Bush
"Look, to those who say that Operation Torchiere, the invasion of North Africa, is not about the war against Japan and Germany, i say to them, look at all the Germans we're fighting against in North Africa. We've won a big victory against the Germans in a place called Kasserine pass, where our troops advanced several miles backwards, and the German retreated forward. However the Wehrmacht is presently in its death throes, and theres NO need to mobilize the economy. You want to beat the Nazis, go shopping"
Antiwar pundits -
Yet again, George Bush has put his foot in his mouth, claiming that the absurd, poorly planned invasion of neutral, democratic, French North Africa, which has alienated French people everywhere from the allied cause was somehow connected with Peal Harbor. Did Harvard Bus School not teach him that the Japanese, er dont speak French? Does he confuse rice noodles with croissants? Now, he makes another rhetorical stretch, claiming that the presence of German troops in North Africa somehow justifies this illegal invasion. We would like to remind the President of two things (if thats not too much for his small brain) First, Germany was NOT a participant in the attack on Pearl. Yes, they had a "pact of Steel" with Japan, but they werent actually fighting on Japans side - there were no German troops in China. Perhaps the president is not aware that the Nationalist Chinese have actually received assistance from Nazi Germany in the past. Yet idiot Bush still thinks that by fighting Germans in North Africa, hes somehow avenging pearl Harbor - now we arent saying the Germans are nice guys -theyre certainly not, but saying that this is somehow connected to Pearl is just more lies from the Rove spin machine. Oh, and we would also remind the prez, that prior to operation "torch" (where the hell did the idiot get "torchiere"?) there were NO german troops in North Africa. If we didnt want Germans in North Africa, we shouldnt have invaded North Africa. Illegally, we might add.
Purportedly hawkish liberals -
We need to take issue with both the president and his antiwar critics. On the one hand the president must take responsibility for not only the bungled planning of Torch, but for the disaster of launching this invasion of a neutral, that we could have wooed to our side. And he should refrain from absurd rhetoric - Rommel had nothing to do with planning the despicable attack on Pearl, and we should avoid the confusion that comes with implying he was. And of course Vichy was not responsible for Rommel anyway - German troops DO exist in France, but NOT in areas under Vichy control. On the other hand, the doves must understand that Germans ARE in North Africa NOW, and even if thats Bushes faults, we cant undo that mistake. NOW we MUST defeat the Germans and drive them from North Africa. After that we should avoid any similar mistakes in the future, like say, invading Normandy.
Anne Coulter
Look, you think the French WERENT responsible for Pearl? Think about it. The Japanese eat raw fish, even stuff like sea anemone. The french eat snails and frogs legs. You dont see the pattern? The japanese speak an incomprehensible language. so do the french. I applaud the president for attacking France, and hope he will be tough enough on them. I suggest New Orleans be placed under martial law, immediately. Anyone who says otherwise is a Nazi lover.
Protests -
"No blood for phosphates"
"how many more children must die in Tunis for Bush?"
"Hey dubya? Are the "death camps" as real as the "dangerous French Fleet"?
"I have a photo of an American general shaking hands with Petain in 1917 - this proves American hypocrisy"
"bush lied, people died"
Dateline, North Africa
when asked whether the military agreed with Bush's categorization of Kasserine pass as a victory, US military spokesmen stated that there were always different views of major battles, and that there really was no point in focusing on arbitrary terms like "victory" or "defeat" The same spokesmen reaffirmed that all US generals believed available forces and supplies were adequate, and that expelling axis forces from North Africa would likely take no longer than 3 to 5 years. "ultimately, this is something the French have to do, but we will do all we can to empower them".
George Patton could not be reached for comment.
Last edited by lord of the mark on 03-08-2005 at 21:24
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:37
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right wing blogger --
again the left shows it true idiocy. They are now saying that prior Operation Torch (the most glorious, most noble action the republic has ever engaged in) there were no German troops in North Africa. Well General Montgomery might disagree. Where do they think Libya and Egypt are, South America. Typical left wing idiocy. Its a good thing we have a great man like Dubya to put them in their place.
left wing blogger -
The warmongerer neocons are at it again. Evidently they dont know the term "north africa" often refers to specifically FRENCH north Africa. Or perhaps they think libya is French rather than Italian. Or perhaps they think both Libya and Algeria are Japanese - fools!!
right wing blogger -
I have attached a list of uses of the word "north Africa" in the mainstream press in the last 5 years, including appeasement publications, and it shows that north africa, without explicit reference to "french north africa" includes Libya and egypt at least 90% of the time. Obviously the leftie bloggers in denying this are sticking their heads in the sand, as we all did before Pearl. If we follow these folks, we will have many more pearl harbors, and worse.
left wing blogger - but it IS French North Africa we're talking about, so why would you exclude references to French north africa in your count? are you as stupid as your president.
right wing blogger -
actually there WAS German presence in FRENCH north africa before Torch. I have attached a list of German diplomatic personnel, business people, present in Casablanca, Algiers, Oran, PRIOR to the invasion.
left wing blogger -
big deal. There were AMERICAN diplomats and businessmen present in all the same cities
right wing blogger
so now youre equating Americans and Nazis? more of the kind of moral equivalence weve come to expect from you.
Last edited by lord of the mark on 03-08-2005 at 21:39
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shawnmmcc
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Dbuya denies that there is a depression. He calls it an economic correction, and continues Coolidge's policies. Due to a lack of funding, and a determined belief in free markets, the US military buildup does not occur. Note his own party of the time helps block his proposed deficit spending.
He increases the use of US troops domestically to "maintain order", as he calls strike-breaking activity. The country becomes even more divided. When asked about lynching activity, he states that is an issue of states rights, and nothing is done (which is what happened anyway FYI). Anyone who engagaes in an "illegal" strike - there are almost no legal ones under his critieria - is branded a felon, and banned from voting. As a result, Bush by 1940 has a Republican House, and the Democratic majority in the Senate is threatened.
He has called the Axis the Axis of Evil, but at the same time called the Soviet Union the largest threat to ever face Western Democracy. Pearl Harbor occurs on schedule, but due to the lack of US provocations, the Nazis do not declare war on the US. Their attitude is that the Japanese screwed Germany with the Soviet Union, the USA is their problem.
Bush gives war contracts only to favored companies. The P51 never gets produced, and the mainline US fighter is the P39 Aircobra and the P40. This leads to a constant struggle in the air in the Pacific, with neither side gaining a clear advantage. The B17 is the end of American bomber development, as it will obviously be more than adequate, and heavy bombers are too expensive anyway.
The Battle of the Coral Sea turns out the same, but from then on history diverges. Due to the lack of manpower, as the draft was not reinstated - we won't need THAT many troops in the case of war, just 10 or 20 divisions - Guadalcanal and the Solomons are lost to the Japanese. They also invade New Caledonia, off the east coast of Australia, partially inderdicting supplies.
Instead of Murmansk convoys, the losses are taken supplying Australia. The Japanese take New Guineau, and make landings in portions of northern Australia. The lack of technological superiority means that the subsequent struggle to push the Japanese out of Australia and the Solomons is long and bloody, and is not completed until well into 1944.
America stands on principle, and does not engage in unrestricted submarine warfare. The Japanese get the oil fields in Indonesia up and running, and the lack of US supplies gives them the decisive hand in China, with the Nationalist forces being decisively defeated. However, Mao's communist insurgency continues to bleed the Japanese dry, and the resulting warfare and Japanese reprisals depopulate large areas of the Chinese hinterlands.
The Japanese invade India, and get their units chewed up. This occurs in 1943, and Japanese naval air units cannot be pulled out of the Australian theatre to bail the Japanses army out. The resulting stalemate results in the Japanese taking increasingly high casualities, as their lack of effective armor and the inferior quality of their army air lets the Brits claim victory.
However, Britian is limping along the rest of the war. They refuse to surrender but at the same time are unable to effectively counter the Nazis. Their unresticted night bombing causes the Nazis to develop their own heavy bomber. The unrestricted night bombing campaigns of 1944 and 1945 raze European cities, until the British actually run low on bombs. The Nazis don't, and all of Britian south of the Scottish border is devastated.
The Brits fight the Nazis to a standstill in Egypt, with the lack of US lend lease causes Montgomery to perpetually delay a counteroffensive. This is exascerbated by the lack of Indian troops, tied up in the conflict along their border with Japan. Rommel is equally starved, due to the situation in the Soviet Union.
The Nazis do not take Moscow, and Stalingrad instead of being a unmitigated disaster instead becomes a bloody stalemate, lasting into 1943. The Soviets, without US radios and trucks, are unable to start their counter-offensives until 1944, and at that point the newer German technologies, plus the fact that the entire US war effort is focused on Japan, results in a similiarly bloody stalement on the Russian front.
The US A-bomb effort is stymied, as Bush is assured by his favored US domestic science advisors the Enrico Fermi is a foreigner not to be trusted. The Nazis and US gain the A-bomb at the same time, in 1946. Neither has a good delivery system. The B17 doesn't have the range, and the V2 is a single highly experimental prototype. The US deposits their bomb in Tokyo bay with a submarine, and the Nazis use theirs to kill Stalin.
In 1946 the resulting chaos of Stalin's death leads to Nazi pseudo-victory, which results instead of the term Vietnam going into military histories as a quagmire, Soviet Union becomes the standard term. Hitler's failing health due to his Parkinson's disease causes a small scale civil war among the Nazis. Purges, counter-purges, and actual warfare between SS and Wehrmacht units means that the Nazis cannot capitalize on their vicotry in the Soviet Union.
The US continues it's slow, steady attack on the Japanese empire. It is hugely costly, and instead only goes up over New Guineau and into the Philipines, as MacArthur is Bush's primary military advisor. The Navy only builds half the carriers they want, and the Japanese, after the Nuking of Tokyo, are more fanatical and determined in their defense.
After the end of the Nazi's civil war, Himmler and the Gestapo are now firmly in control of Germany. The resulting purges result in even fewer scientists and engineers (the Nazis in the 1930's had already cut the number of graduates in those fields by half). They continue to bleed troops to Soviet partisans, and the resulting massacres, work camps, extermination camps, and general reprisals against the Slavs make the extermination of the European Jews look like childs play.
By 1948 over 100 million have died in the occupied areas of the Soviet Union. The US has taken the Phillipines, Iwo Jima, and Okinawa. An invasion is about to begin, and the losses without air domination over the Japanese island will be staggering. In China the Japanese brutal occupation policies may have killed as many as the Nazis "Slavic solution".
The US is planning a nuclear bombing campaign from the air bases on Okinawa, with specially modified B17R's to carry the bombs. As the Japanese have the George in production (a good modern radial engined fighter) and stockpiled oil from before the fall of the Phillipines, which cut their supply lines, their have been no fire bomb raids. The A-bombs will not stop the invasion.
The losses from invading Japan are staggering. Bush is defeated in the 1948 campaign after casualties exceed 1 million in the invasion of Japan, with over 200,000 dead. The new administration, running on an honorable peace, negotiates a settlement. Churchhill is similarly defeated when the Brits now realize the new US adminstation will never help them defeat Himmler's new genocidal state. A dark mantle falls over Europe and China.
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Alexander's Horse
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Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:37
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Donald Rumsfeld is shown the DDAY plans. Decides 6 invasion beaches is far too many. Cuts US landing back to one beach, Omaha. Unveils his plan for light motorised cavalry or "striker" divisions to replace the armoured divisions, which he regards as too heavy and slow for the lightening drive to Berlin he has mapped out for Eisenhower on a post-it note. Patton's Third Army is stripped of tanks and given multi purpose halftracks instead, much faster and more versatile in Rumsfeld view. Rumsfeld overrules generals and cancels airborne attack to coincide with landings. Rumsfeld says DDay will be a walkover anyway, so why waste all those gliders?
Weather is delaying DDAY until the invasion is set for 6 June anyway to fit in with the Presidential vacation which starts on 7 June. Dubya wants to make a victory speech as the troops wade ashore. Ceremonies to accept the German are pencilled in for the third week of August, which is the week Dubya returns from his vacation.
Last edited by Alexander's Horse on 04-08-2005 at 09:47
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:37
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After the Battle of the Coral Sea, Bush stands on the deck of the Enterprise and announces, "Mission accomplished."
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Albert Einstein writes to Dubya warning that the atomic bomb is a possibility. |
Dubya decides it's a good idea, then cuts science funding to give a tax break to the rich so that government revenue will rise and that why the government will have money to increase funding for the Manhattan project.
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03-08-2005 08:38
Great posts so far! 
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