03-08-2005 04:33									#1
	Skyscrapers in London Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

As many of you have noticed, whether visitors or residents, that London is relatively short on big buildings, at least until very recently. I have been flicking through some of the proposed buildings that are either under construction and proposed. I think this is a good thing, about time there was more floorspace to bring the prices of space down and they look impressive! The London Bridge Tower is due to be constructed (307m) and I was looking at another proposed building, the Bishopsgate Tower at 308m. Will be cool if these two are built

And there are several other buildings being proposed. There is another one called Ecotower which is proposed that would be 485m.

It will be nice to see the skyline of London looking a little bigger

	03-08-2005 04:35									#2
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Of course, English Heritage are kicking up a fuss about these obscuring the London skyline, but I think they are a bunch of fuddy-duddy Luddite tw@ts

	03-08-2005 04:35									#3
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Bah!

Europeans are not allowed to have massive skyscrappers

That's only allowed in the New World and Asia

	03-08-2005 04:36									#4
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You've got an education coming, if you think the tall buildings will lower real estate prices in London.

	03-08-2005 04:39									#5
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Skyscrappers f*cking rule!

	03-08-2005 04:49									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Skyscrappers f*cking rule!

Quoted for TRUTH!

	03-08-2005 04:52									#7
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Yeah, scrap that tower of london - it just takes up too much valuable real estate.

	03-08-2005 04:55									#8
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quote: Skyscrappers f*cking rule!

QFT

	03-08-2005 05:03									#9
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Didn't Paris just put its bigger buildings in a single district away from most of the historical stuff?

	03-08-2005 05:21									#10
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Provost, do you have any links to the artist's depictions of said skyscrapers in London? I would be really curious to check them out.

	03-08-2005 05:53									#11
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Does London have regs like DC that bar buildings beyond a certain height? DC bans buildings higher than the monument; I can imagine that the equivelent is no buildings higher than Big Ben.

	03-08-2005 06:00									#12
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I doubt it - they may he it for the close proximity of Big Ben, but not for the city - that would be some kind of rediciously.

	03-08-2005 06:21									#13
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London Bridge Tower

Attachment: tower.jpg
This has been downloaded 191 time(s).

	03-08-2005 06:26									#14
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It's about time London started building skyscrapers, what took them so long?

Though, I do have to say this, New York's city skyline does look dirty; With the new technology we have today, we can build cleaner looking skyscrapers and buildings. So London should end up looking cleaner than New York.

	03-08-2005 06:33									#15
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I don't think they could get enough footprint space to have a solid skyline like NYC, which is not a bad thing.

I am curious as to what they are knocking down to get the property to build on.

	03-08-2005 06:36									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Sn00py London Bridge Tower

Jesus Christ that's ugly.

	03-08-2005 06:53									#17
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Paris has the fewest skyscrapers of any major city yet one of the highest population densities.

This is because once you go above around 10 floors, net floor area ratio (usable space) increases very slowly, as services, especially elevators, take up more space, buildings need to be stepped back to meet zoning codes so whole neighborhoods aren't in the shadows all day, structural columns get big, etc.

Net floor area ratios above 10 are exceedingly rare, even in Manhattan.

Typical European blocks of around 8-10 stories, built to the lot lines, and with a light court in the back, get around a net area of 5.

	03-08-2005 06:59									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Sn00py It's about time London started building skyscrapers, what took them so long? Though, I do have to say this, New York's city skyline does look dirty; With the new technology we have today, we can build cleaner looking skyscrapers and buildings. So London should end up looking cleaner than New York.

"Dirty"?

By that do you mean Manhattan is filled with classic, very recognizeable industial era buildings, and not just modern corporate glass and steel towers that make the eyes water and the stomach hurl?

Because if so, you are correct.

Skylines are not just a function of buildings, but of geography- you need to be able to see the buildings in a cluster to have a skyline. For example, from most angles of Chicago's skyline the Sears Towers is absent, because it is set apart from the main areas of high rises.

Manhattan actually has various skylines, you have to be in Queens to actually see both the downtown and midtown skyscrappers in the same field of vision.

	03-08-2005 07:00									#19
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Smiley, I assume from your description that net floor area ratio is calculated as total usable space/footprint?

	03-08-2005 07:04									#20
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quote: Does London have regs like DC that bar buildings beyond a certain height? DC bans buildings higher than the monument

Higher than the Statue of Freedom, rather.

	03-08-2005 07:06									#21
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It doesn't help that nowadays most highrises have the upper 20 "floors" doing nothing but looking pretty. In the picture shown, I doubt the top third of the building has any useful space.

	03-08-2005 07:09									#22
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quote: Didn't Paris just put its bigger buildings in a single district away from most of the historical stuff?

Yes, and it works beautifully. IIRC the newest stuff in the actual city of Paris is the Tour Montparnasse (the only huge "skyscraper" in the city) and several high rise apartment buildings constructed in the 1970s (on the size of, say, a casino on the Vegas Strip, I guess...nowhere near the size of a NYC skyscraper.)

The "skyscraper district" is La Defense, and it has an arch that lines up with the Arc de Triomphe and thus the Champs Elysees.

This picture's kind of too dark but a lot of my other ones are too light to properly see all the way down to la defense. I guess I'll have to go back to get the picture right

	03-08-2005 07:11									#23
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La defence rules so bad. I really like paris.

	03-08-2005 07:32									#24
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I thought they had taller buildings there, but I have seen other pictures and it looks nice.

	03-08-2005 17:32									#25
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell This picture's kind of too dark but a lot of my other ones are too light to properly see all the way down to la defense.

Gamma adjusted for your convenience, sir.

Paris has it about right for a European city, I agree.

I'm reminded of the old saying that the best view in Paris is not from Tour Eiffel, but actually from the Tour Montparnasse. Why? It's the only place where you don't see the Tour Montparnasse...

	03-08-2005 17:54									#26
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Skyscrapers are ugly!!!

Paris

	03-08-2005 18:01									#27
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The London skyscrapers crop up in bunches like Canary Wharf or where Bishopsgate will be. Like all buildings in London, they can't obstruct the view of St. Paul's so they, very nicely in my view, serve as a backdrop to the existing city skyline.

And the best part is that we're not building just metal and glass blocks. Someone in the Observer commented that London is starting to look like the European version of Shanghai with its style of skyscrapers.

	03-08-2005 18:07									#28
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i hope Prince Charles gets involved in this discussion

	03-08-2005 18:20									#29
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As everyone who has ever watched US movies knows the only thing to be seen in london is Big Ben and red buses

	03-08-2005 18:43									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Starchild And the best part is that we're not building just metal and glass blocks. Someone in the Observer commented that London is starting to look like the European version of Shanghai with its style of skyscrapers.

eh, I don't know if the Shanghai comparison is desirable, they've got some really tacky stuff over there.