 |
| |
|
|
child of Thor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
It's depressing the lack of actual agricultural experience this board has. |
my father is a respected scientist who has worked for many government+private companies over the years of his carear(about 40 years).
my grandfather has always provided the family with non-pesticide induced food from his garden, and has also worked within the goverments(uk) agricultural setup since+during the second world war. He writes/researches for friends of the Earth now in his retirement.
But i agree if your talking about large scale agricultural production levels, where things get much more complicated.
Still in PNG my father ensured that under his 20year stewardship of the COPRA+CCRI agencies, that no ariel crop spraying was allowed. He introduced using parasites to control pest species(rhino beetle for example), and it was incredibly succesfull - the petro-chemical companies were not very happy though, and fought against the policy where ever it could.
In my view they are parrallel to the big oil companies in the world, the way they do business and what they care about at the end of the day(money above all else).
So i have little sympathy for them - i choose the better future world over what they would promote.
But apart from hearing about stuff, my own agri experience has been just stuff i've grown for myself using various techniques, like organic,companion plants,prey species(hedgehogs are good to combat slugs for example) etc.
If we could get the big industries to just try to adopt some other methods than mass spraying of chemicals then it would be of benifit to everyones and the planets health.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ogie Oglethorpe
|
 |
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:37
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by child of Thor
my father is a respected scientist who has worked for many government+private companies over the years of his carear(about 40 years).
my grandfather has always provided the family with non-pesticide induced food from his garden, and has also worked within the goverments(uk) agricultural setup since+during the second world war. He writes/researches for friends of the Earth now in his retirement.
But i agree if your talking about large scale agricultural production levels, where things get much more complicated.
Still in PNG my father ensured that under his 20year stewardship of the COPRA+CCRI agencies, that no ariel crop spraying was allowed. He introduced using parasites to control pest species(rhino beetle for example), and it was incredibly succesfull - the petro-chemical companies were not very happy though, and fought against the policy where ever it could.
In my view they are parrallel to the big oil companies in the world, the way they do business and what they care about at the end of the day(money above all else).
So i have little sympathy for them - i choose the better future world over what they would promote.
But apart from hearing about stuff, my own agri experience has been just stuff i've grown for myself using various techniques, like organic,companion plants,prey species(hedgehogs are good to combat slugs for example) etc.
If we could get the big industries to just try to adopt some other methods than mass spraying of chemicals then it would be of benifit to everyones and the planets health.
|
I grew up on a smallish farm. (100 acres with 150 acres leased) Dad was a PhD biologist and taught at universities his entire career 30 + years while being a full time farmer with the aid of his two sons.
In essence everyone wants their food stuffs to be pristine and the environement to be completely unharmed. In practice the rub is in order to do so, it absolutely requires so much extra labor and resources it is for themost part impractical to do on any meaningful scale and still turn a profit in order to remain viable. Even for the smallish farmer like we were ( as margins for the farmer are usually razor thin) the only means to survive is ensure maximum productivity or find a means to have crops with larger margins. Soemtimes one might stumble into a new cash crop. For example the rage a few years ago was planting sunflowers, however for the most part staples like corn, oats, hay were a recipe for bankruptcy.
Now were the market place decided pro-organic and would pay the premium to allow enough labor to fill those needs that would beone thing, but I seriously doubt that radical change will ever happen in the marketplace. I could be wrong but I doubt it. OTOH were the governement to come in and via regulation force organic practices the first thing that would happen is the smallish farmer (already an endangered speicies) would be the first to go as they have no reserves of cash to afford to absorb extra costs.
In order to have a fair accounting of the practices it would have been appropriate for the BBC article to at least comment on the manpower requirements per acre farmed organically vs. conventionally. Likewise a commentary on overall productivity of the land comparing the practices would have been in order. Otherwise the article is a whole lot of "yeah so what else is new, No big surprise". "Raaah Raaah organic farming."
Last edited by Ogie Oglethorpe on 03-08-2005 at 18:23
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
child of Thor
|
|
costs in the uk are getting better(at the consumer end). roughly 60% of my shopping(not just groceries) is organic(and/or fairtrade/recycled/eco friendly) - and it makes my weekly shopping bill about £10 more expensive. No big deal in my book.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
DanS
|
 |
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
|
|
The fact is that some pesticides are worse than others. Many of the most heavily used pesticides break down in the environment very quickly, and aren't very toxic in any event, so I would hesitate to recommend against their use for some ephemeral "reduced pesticide use" goal. On the other hand, there are some pesticides that I would wish that we use less of, no matter the magnitude of "less."
Besides, in an aisle of organic food at the local Fresh Fields supermarket, I guess that about half of the claims to be better are BS. As I was growing up, my family was a member of an organic food co-op. A lot of the food was very good and healthful, if expensive. A lot of the food gained nothing by being organic, however.
My old Amish neighbors grow organic-lite and it's incredibly wasteful. I wouldn't recommend that anybody operate a farm like this. Over the last several years, crop yields for many crops on conventional farms have been going through the roof (besides this Summer's drought), so I bet that organic foods will become increasingly more expensive compared to conventionally-grown foods as time goes on.
Last edited by DanS on 03-08-2005 at 19:49
|
|
| |
|
|
|
child of Thor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by DanS
edit...
A lot of the food was very good and healthful, if expensive. A lot of the food gained nothing by being organic, however.
|
well 'nothing' is good - if it includes chemicals that can be harmfull to small children.
One of the test they did on the TV program i mentioned was to go to a variety of british supermarkets and buy a bag of groceries in each. they then took them into a lab and tested the food for chemical residues etc.
They found that in fruit+vegetables that you might use mashed up to give to your baby, the loose 'fresh' produce had toxicity levels upto 300% the allowed dosages that you can have in manufactured babyfoods(cow+gate for example). These levels all fell under the permited agri level for chemicals in adult food though.
Still it just high lights that we cant 'chemical' our way out of some difficult decisions. In a developed world, where sperm rates are falling, cancers and allergies are risieng etc we should look at our food with a much more critical eye. And from a personal point of view if i didn't eat organic fruit+veg anyway - i might have to consider eating bottled baby food over the stuff you buy loose in the supermarket. That 300% less pesticde/chemical residue would be important to me 
Last edited by child of Thor on 03-08-2005 at 20:52
|
|
| |
|
|
|
DanS
|
|
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
|
|
I agree with your post, insofar as my experience extends. I note that the Amish grow everything organically, including the basic crops that you mention. Also, I note that if you have an organic co-op or supermarket like Fresh Fields, you have to have everything organic, including the flour. So even though it doesn't make sense to grow wheat organically, organic flour is what will be stocked.
Last edited by DanS on 03-08-2005 at 20:22
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Jon Miller
|
|
nonorganic farms have the production artificially over valued by the government (who pays them to not grow corn, or to destroy corn, etc)
so it isn't as simple as what produces the most
JM
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:37.
Apolyton Time is 00:37. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
03-08-2005 17:02
|