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Jon Miller
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quote:
Originally posted by Patroklos
Do you think people should pay a disproportionate about of taxes due to class discrimination?
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class discrimination is already in built into the system
the difference in taxes is just trying to even it out a bit (which it doesn't)
same is true for quality education and health care
you just want to have your castle and be able to lord it over us serfs
if a bit of discrimination had not been offset, the revolution would have happened years ago
and the statesmen better watch what they do, if they roll back the offset, there will be a revolution coming...
JM
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Frankychan
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In the Kingdom of Hawaii (CPA Member)
Sep 2001
time: 19:37
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
There's more than one way to remove someone from society, and there are different ways to define "don't contribute." If you mistrust us, you will necessarily define it in the most nefarious menaing possible. If you trust us, you will go to the other extreme. That's just the nature of how people communicate.
Suffice it to say, I highly doubt Franky meant it as in setting up death camps for Jews, gays, cripples, etc. I think it was more likely along the lines of, if you don't want to do your share, go live somewhere people accept that sort of behavior. Good luck finding it. |
Yeah, I didn't mean that we start constructing death camps. I meant that exactly said above.
"I think it was more likely along the lines of, if you don't want to do your share, go live somewhere people accept that sort of behavior. Good luck finding it."
Of course, I understand people fall on hard times and sometimes s*** hits the fan....AND I realize that while one may want to work, it's sometimes hard to get that job. These kind of people deserve governmental assistance IE welfare, Section 8 housing assistance, etc.
But those that just want a permanent free ride deserve to the kick to the curb.
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Jon Miller
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quote:
Originally posted by Patroklos
Your just jealous and greedy. Just say it and be done with it. No need to hide it behind convoluted political doublespeak. |
the system is made to benefit the privileged
they get in less trouble, they get more stuff, their children are better off, success is easier for them to get, it is easier for them to get perks, it is easier for them to be healthy
I could go on
JM
(And if you say it is becuase they are better then me, or people I know who are not privileged, then you are not worth talking to)
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Dis
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Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon Miller
the system is made to benefit the privileged
they get in less trouble, they get more stuff, their children are better off, success is easier for them to get, it is easier for them to get perks, it is easier for them to be healthy
I could go on
JM
(And if you say it is becuase they are better then me, or people I know who are not privileged, then you are not worth talking to) |
they are better than you. 
What you say is true to a large extent. But contrary to popular belief, not all hope is lost for poor people. I grew up fairly poor. Yet today I do not consider myself poor (more like lower middle class). I could make more money if I had the motivation (mostly I don't like dealing with the stress).
This increase is important, as I have accumulated wealth. I own a home, and have money in the stock market. If I had kids I could pass this off to them, the could take these assets and build more assets, and their kids do the same and so on.
Of course, if I had stupid kids they would lose all this wealth. But what this shows is if you have intelligences and/or skills, you can break the cycle. Though I should note I'm white. I'm not sure if a black man could do the same thing I could. Sadly, racism is not completely dead in america.
and Yes, I'm saying I'm reasonably intelligent. Such arrogance and ego, I know. But I felt this is what helped me escape the plagues of the poor society I grew up with. I grew up in a culture of drugs and bad rock music. But I made it through alive. 
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Omni Rex Draconis
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quote:
Patroklos:
there is no rational for the rich to pay more other than greed |
The last thing we need to worry about is taking away incentives to become rich.
As long as it is possible to become rich (bad communism, bad!), and money still means something, people will want to become rich.
On the other hand, I believe that we have reached the stage in human evolution to provide all the basics of life - free of charge.
Air, food, water, and waste disposal. Appropriate shelter for climate, privacy, and security. A system of government and law that works. A practical basic level of medical service. Communication, minimal power, and access to basic education. All paid for.
Everything else, and I do mean EVERYTHING, is defined as a non-essential service and therefore best served by a free market. Government is by its very nature is inefficient; with no competition (you can't even vote for the bureacracy), there is no incentive to improve or check corruption.
Everyone who makes a dollar should pay a tax. It is the percentage of total dollars required to pay for our essential services. The poor longer need to suffer the greater proportion of fixed expenses - those are covered by the state. The "rich", no matter how they are defined, never lose by moving upwards. They paid a 25% tax on their first dollar, and they will pay 25% of their last.
There is the danger of the hippie movement, the culture of free, that will take up a lifestyle completely free of dollar bills. I think that living in an unadorned 5'x10' apartment has to be beyond most people's tolerance, however. And we could support a great many tree huggers (god bless 'em).
I will leave it the economists here to figure out a suitable measure of increasing wealth and how to apply it.
So, Patroklos, is that rational? And more to the point of the thread, does this make me a Republican?
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Jon Miller
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if you took a way quality public education I could not be here today
I went to public school for 8 years precollege (some private, some homeschooled)
and relied on scholarships/grants/loans (+ my own work) for college (private)
and now have worked in gradschool (but work which was supported by the government) (not completed gradschool yet...)
so while I expect to be 'more succesful' then most my peers (people who I went to school with, etc), I couldn't have done what I have done so far without 'quality public education'
and if my first 8 years had been up to snuff (my highschool was crappy), I could have done a lot better (and faster)
JM
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Jon Miller
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the rich kids went to private school
where they got help getting good sat scores
and got good AP classes, and other college prep (I managed to talk my way into a nearby community college, so it wasn't all bad, but it took some ammount of work)
got decent teachers, etc
Jon Miller
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Omni Rex Draconis
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With all respect due when talking about somebody else's education system, do Americans not have inner urban schools which are completely funded only by the local constituents?
If so, then it is my guess that are many such cases and no extreme. Rich parents would move.
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Jon Miller
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few well off kids
and the well off kids did do better on average
but my community was pretty poor
I don't think that there was anyone truly rich (a few people whose parents combined made ~100+k)
I am fine with private schools, because frankly sometimes public ones are failures
I think that you should be able to get government assistance for private school if the nearby public ones are failures (and governments have numbers on the schools, and a lot are known to be failures/troubled)
a lot of the students wanted to do what their fathers did
which was work in the mill, or the like
but the mills were closed, so they ended up working in a gas station or the like
which isn't going anywhere, and a lot of them turned to drugs
this is true in a lot of communities where the schools are in trouble, and the students are in trouble...
I just think that there should be good public education (Better then was available to me), if some wealthy parent wants to hire a private tutor or send their child to private school that is fine wit hme
but the level of education should not be noticeably different
a fair number of any class of student squanders their opportunities in education
it is just if they are wealthy or poor they get different results
I know people who couldn't do college, and so were gas station attendents and the like (who were poor)
I know people who were freshman for years, as well as tried art school and other such things
but will do fine, since they will take over their parents business in a few years..
a lot of people in my college had parents who were millionaires... they could screw arround and it would really matter much in the long run
JM
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