04-08-2005 21:12									#121
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Japher One man's lack of vision is another man's taste in art...

Which is why Thomas Kincaid is a millionaire. But he's no artist.

	04-08-2005 21:14									#122
	Increase Your PM Length

And is why Jackson Pollack is considered a great modern artist... Art is subjective, thus so is the title "artist"

	04-08-2005 21:15									#123
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara No, anyone cannot learn to be an artist. You either are or aren't.

Such ignorance, and from someone who styles himself an artist, no less.

quote: No amount of training will ever make you an artist if you just don't have the talent. You could even be technically flawless, but it you don't have the spark or the vision.

Like I said, there are only three things you need: A will, the means, and Experience. None of these are inherient in a person, except perhaps the will, and that is only saying that you can not be an artist unless you want to be.

Of course, even without all three you can still have a succesfull career and get paid obscene amounts of money (which seems to be your qualification for ability ) just like your average desk jockey working his way up through the buisness world.

	04-08-2005 21:21									#124
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Japher And is why Jackson Pollack is considered a great modern artist... Art is subjective, thus so is the title "artist"

Pollack was the first to do what he did. Furthermore, his art reflected the post-war uncertainty of the atomic age. It is, first and foremost, a means of communication. If the "artist" isn't trying to express something with his or her work, it isn't art. Kincaid, to use an earlier example, is only trying to get you to use your American Express™. He is a good designer, but he isn't trying to say anything.

	04-08-2005 21:22									#125
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara So the problem is that you are stupid, then? You are, I presume, aware that the wilderness is a rather dangerous place, yes? You don't think that a person who could fix you up might have something valuable to contribute, in case you get hurt or sick?

The usefullness of a modernly trained doctor quickly diminishes when you are in an environment that has no hospital facility, no drugs, and no tools or equipment.

Of course, I wasn't really taking your question that seriously.... a dessert island with two people on it is hardly a good hypothetical comparrison to society.

I guess I would go with the janitor, since he would probably have a better chance of not having an emotional break down and being unable to cope with the change of being removed from his element.

	04-08-2005 21:22									#126
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Japher Art is subjective

Only to a point.

	04-08-2005 21:26									#127
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Such ignorance, and from someone who styles himself an artist, no less.

So that kinda makes me an industry expert. My opinion here is worth a lot more than yours.

quote: Like I said, there are only three things you need: A will, the means, and Experience.

And you are utterly wrong.

quote: Of course, even without all three you can still have a succesfull career and get paid obscene amounts of money (which seems to be your qualification for ability )

I don't believe I used the term success anywhere. I simply stated how society values people.

	04-08-2005 21:27									#128
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Is photography and art?

	04-08-2005 21:32									#129
	Got spare money?

Is Che agrueing FOR capitalism?

	04-08-2005 21:48									#130
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Japher Is photography and art?

It can be.

	04-08-2005 21:49									#131
	Inflate your Upload Space

How is photography expression?

	04-08-2005 21:50									#132
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Donegeal Is Che agrueing FOR capitalism?

I'm arguing that what is, is. I'm also arguing that society places greater value on doctors than on janitors, and that that value should be compensated. Even in socialism, there will be inequality of income. It won't be as great, but it will still be there.

	04-08-2005 21:53									#133
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Such ignorance, and from someone who styles himself an artist, no less. So that kinda makes me an industry expert. My opinion here is worth a lot more than yours.

Really? My mother has an MFA and is the director/curator of a public gallery, my sister is currently persuing her own MFA, and I am starting to persue a career in the arts myself, despite never having shown any interest or understanding of it at all untill a year ago (after I started volounteering at my mom's gallery and began meeting artists, seeing their work, and regularily attending talks and workshops)

The biggest hurdle that I had to (and still have to) overcome is the notion that there is something preventing me from being an artist... that it's something inherient in an individual. Which is really quite alot of nonsense. Nobody is born an artist... art is, almost by definition, experience and passion.

quote: quote: Of course, even without all three you can still have a succesfull career and get paid obscene amounts of money (which seems to be your qualification for ability ) I don't believe I used the term success anywhere. I simply stated how society values people.

quote: not everyone can make a web page that will get them paid absurd amounts of money

	04-08-2005 21:54									#134
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Japher How is photography expression?

There are a lot of things you can do to make a photograph an expression, from the type of camera and film, to setting, lighting, subject matter, to developing and alterations. It's not as simple as pointing and clicking, despite what Kodak would have you believe.

	04-08-2005 21:57									#135
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Really? My mother has an MFA and is the director/curator of a public gallery, my sister is currently persuing her own MFA, and I am starting to persue a career in the arts myself, despite never having shown any interest or understanding of it at all untill a year ago (after I started volounteering at my mom's gallery and began meeting artists, seeing their work, and regularily attending talks and workshops)

So your family are a bunch of parasites on artists, like RIAA is to musicians. This makes you think you have an educated opinion on what it takes to be an artist?

	04-08-2005 22:13									#136
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara So your family are a bunch of parasites on artists, like RIAA is to musicians.

Yes.... making your own work, running a gallery that shows other people's work, teaching courses, arranging exhibitions, promoting art in the public, all quite parasitic....

I guess you would prefer it if artists all twiddled away by themselves in the basement making little pitures to amuse themselves with, that no one else will ever see?

quote: This makes you think you have an educated opinion on what it takes to be an artist?

I didn't claim to have an "educated opinion" - it was you that claimed your experience as a web desinger trumped mine my own knowledge of the arts, and I'm merely pointing out that I live in the art world.

	04-08-2005 22:29									#137
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara This makes you think you have an educated opinion on what it takes to be an artist?

of course it does

	04-08-2005 23:35									#138
	Put an end to popups!

MikeH

quote: Why do people care so much about labels? Republican/democrat, who cares? Just work out where you stand on each issue...

(didn't agree with the ignore bit)

Bed time, will have to get back later.

	05-08-2005 04:10									#139
	Remove this text

quote: Yes I blame lawyers for the malpractice fiasco in the U.S.

Even when states with caps on medmal have seen their premiums rise exponentially?

http://www.independent-media.tv/ite...criptio
n

(Weren't caps supposed to stop that sort of thing?)

And when groups like Americans for Insurance Reform have said that payments for malpractice claims have remained flat since the 1980s (in real dollar terms)?

Fact it, Dis. Even with all the facts we've shown you still want to 'get' trial lawyers. It's an emotional, not factual crusade with you. Trial lawyers aren't responsible for high costs of premiums. The insurance companies are.

	05-08-2005 16:42									#140
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Fact it, Dis. Even with all the facts we've shown you still want to 'get' trial lawyers. It's an emotional, not factual crusade with you. Trial lawyers aren't responsible for high costs of premiums. The insurance companies are.

Bullsh!t. They are symbiotic parasites. Neither would be able to do a fraction of the damage they do without the other. Ironically they both perform a slight service to the general good, though there are alternatives that can perform those same services at much less cost.