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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:37
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By E&P Staff
Published: August 06, 2005 6:30 PM ET
NEW YORK It was bound to happen sooner or later, and in what newspapers in Kentucky are calling a first, one American has killed another in a dispute over the Iraq war.
It happened at Floyd County flea market on Thursday, when two friends, who were firearms vendors there, drew guns after quarreling about the war. Douglas Moore, 65, of Martin, who backs the war, shot and killed Harold Wayne Smith, 56, of Manchester, who opposed it, according to investigators.
Moore was released without being charged after he convinced police he had acted in self-defense. A grand jury may yet hear evidence in the case.
Commonwealth's Attorney Brent Turner said the episode might mark the first death in the U.S. due to a dispute over the war.
One witness, Sam Hamman of Prestonsburg, told the Lexington Herald-Leader, "Harold was talking about the 14 people that were killed in Iraq the other day and Doug said that just as many people were killed on the highways here.”
This quickly escalated into an argument, then to a scuffle, and finally both men drew pistols outside a snack shed. The dead man was apparently just a little slower in firing. Witnesses said he stood for about five seconds before toppling on the walkway.
In a telephone interview with the Lexington paper yesterday, Moore said police had told him not to discuss his feelings about the Iraq war.
"I'm sorry this has happened," Moore, a retired railroad worker, said. "But then what's done can't be undone." Moore told the Lexington reporter he thinks Smith and his family knew him well enough "to know what my thoughts are, his family does, because me and Harold was friends. That's all I'll say."
The daughter of the dead man said the two men were friends and had discussed Iraq before. She said her father "had different opinions than everybody. He felt it was wrong that all of these young people were losing their lives over what was going on. It was just a political disagreement, like a whole lot of people have."
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BlackCat
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@Winston : Those examples you give, can't be blamed on Bush - that two guncrazy old men start firing at each other over Iraq, you can.
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackCat
@Winston : Those examples you give, can't be blamed on Bush - that two guncrazy old men start firing at each other over Iraq, you can. |
Can they blame Bush at all for the fact that two older men would even be CARRYING pistols when in a casual conversation with a friend?
I hate the Canadian gun registry and think many gun control attempts have been misguided . Perhaps nothing could have prevented these two old guys from carrying a pistol. But does anyone doubt that they would both likely be alive right now if neither had a pistol with them
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BlackCat
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Do you also expect dealers of sextoys to be "carrying" ?
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Frigging hicks... |
That's 'fragging', with an a.
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BlackCat
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quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
*shrug*
I don't own a gun. Never really saw the need.
But I do reserve the right to own one, and IF I own one, I acknowledge that it won't do me much good if I can't get to it.
It is a freedom I find important, even if I do not actively participate by owning one of the things.
-=Vel=- |
Why is it important ? The chance that you ever are going to need it is pretty close to zero, and if you really are in need for it, the chance that you can figure out to use it right is at the same size.
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:37
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Once again a commie attempts violence to try to silence a freedom loving conservative's freedom of speach, and gets his silly ass blown away for his trouble.
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Patroklos
They would have just used baseball bats |
and 50 year olds routinely carry those ???
Yes I'll acknowledge the blatantly obvious fact that people can be killed with things other than guns if you acknowledge the equally blatantly obvious fact that there are hundreds of people that would be alive today but for the ready availability of a gun.
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Flip McWho
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New Zealand
May 2002
time: 17:37
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Sounds so very 1800s.
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:37
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Master Flubber!  Write this down...I think it may be the first time we ever disagreed!
There's no denying that what you say is true. The guy died at the hands of a gun. Take the gun out of the equation and he'd be alive. Likewise, as you pointed out, the same argument could be made for LOTS of other folks.
However....I contend that the death would be no less tragic if it had occured at a flea market...say...at a knife booth (couple of knife dealers), rather than a gun booth.
Who's to say they wouldn't have pulled out a couple of swept-hilt replica rapiers and had at it?
I hardly think that concerned passers by would have jumped in to save them from themselves in that case (and anybody who has watched a live steel duel would readily agree with that sentiment), and yet...the result would have been no less fatal, and no less unfortunate.
The problem I have is that the gun is not, and was not the core problem. Nor would it (the object used to cause harm) have been the core problem had it been a sword, a knife, a straight razor, or a number two pencil (all of those items selected purposefully, because I use them on a daily basis, btw).
Just because a person CAN be harmed (or killed) with any of those objects is insufficient cause for their banning, IMO (or even tight control).
To take the argument along a tangential direction, it is POSSIBLE to engineer a car that will be 100% safe. That is to say, no fatalities would EVER occur from driving them.
Such a car would be made entirely of nerf material and have a top cruising speed comparable to bumper cars.
EVEN IF I DID NOT DRIVE, I would not support such legislation that mandated construction of autos in this manner, *even tho* it would be guaranteed to save lives.
-=Vel=-
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
Master Flubber! Write this down...I think it may be the first time we ever disagreed!
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Well publicly that may be the case-- But color me shocked that an American is more pro-gun than the non-American 
quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
However....I contend that the death would be no less tragic if it had occured at a flea market...say...at a knife booth (couple of knife dealers), rather than a gun booth.
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I agree fully -- senseless deaths are equally tragic regardless of weapon chosen. And many homocides are senseless in that 2 minutes after the person is dead, the person that killed them wishes they were not dead
quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
Who's to say they wouldn't have pulled out a couple of swept-hilt replica rapiers and had at it?
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I don't see where this disagrees with me at all. I readily concede that there are a number of things at hand by which people can kill each other.
quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
I hardly think that concerned passers by would have jumped in to save them from themselves in that case (and anybody who has watched a live steel duel would readily agree with that sentiment), and yet...the result would have been no less fatal, and no less unfortunate.
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Agreed again. BUT there is a much greater chance that parties could
-- inflict only minor injuries
-- have police intervene
-- come to their senses
-- inflict less than fatal wounds
A single trigger pull is often fatal-- it is easy to do and instantaneous. And the threat of a gun is such that merely holding it is threatening to others. There is no need to advance aggressively
quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
Just because a person CAN be harmed (or killed) with any of those objects is insufficient cause for their banning, IMO (or even tight control).
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So why not pull a Ted Striker and demand your own personal nuclear weapon. Or less drastic, why can't I buy a bazooka freely or a mortar??
quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
To take the argument along a tangential direction, it is POSSIBLE to engineer a car that will be 100% safe. That is to say, no fatalities would EVER occur from driving them.
Such a car would be made entirely of nerf material and have a top cruising speed comparable to bumper cars.
EVEN IF I DID NOT DRIVE, I would not support such legislation that mandated construction of autos in this manner, *even tho* it would be guaranteed to save lives.
-=Vel=- |
Nice tangent --
quote:
Originally posted by Vel
Master Flubber! Write this down...I think it may be the first time we ever disagreed!
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Actually while I had fun responsing, I'm not sure that we did disagree .. My quotes were
quote:
Originally posted by flubber
and 50 year olds routinely carry those ???
Yes I'll acknowledge the blatantly obvious fact that people can be killed with things other than guns if you acknowledge the equally blatantly obvious fact that there are hundreds of people that would be alive today but for the ready availability of a gun.
and
I'm not saying that there is a gun control method that actually works . . . I was just making the observation -- one that can be made HUNDREDS of times in the US every year-- that a person would likely be still alive if a gun were not so readily available
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Can you disagree with anything in either of those paragraphs? I think from your previous responses, you agree fully with both
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Riesstiu IV
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You sir have offend my Southern heritage. I challenge you to a duel!
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Max Webster
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As long as Americans with guns stay within their border. I don't really have a problem with what they do with them.
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10-08-2005 04:09
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