 |
| |
|
| |
|
|
General Ludd
|
 |
Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:37
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Isn't he also the founder, though?
quote: originally posted by General Ludd
There's many people who do alot more for alot less. |
[quote]Oh? I'm sure that list is very, very few. |
I'm sure it isn't.
quote:
The old fallacy that CEOs don't do any work (skewered by "The Simpsons" in that great episode where Homer becomes CEO of the Nuke Plant). |
It's not that they don't do any work, it's that the work they do is essentially the same as anyone who is in a managerial position. The only difference is that the CEO happens to of been put in charge of a buisness which is making obscene amounts of money, while on the other hand, the executive of a non-profit organization, for instance, is doing the same work for a fraction of the pay.
quote:
However, while I do sympathize with the guy that works 3 jobs, he also isn't responsible for thousands or millions of jobs |
Do you remember what the subject of the opening post was about?
quote:
and doesn't need anywhere near the training or skills that a CEO would need. |
Now that sounds like a fallacy.
Last edited by General Ludd on 10-08-2005 at 23:42
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Kontiki
|
|
Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:37
|
|
I think you're really overstating the tasks of a CEO, Imran. I work for and with multi-billion dollar companies and I can guarantee you that there are many people in each of them who work alot harder and with just as much riding on them than the CEO who make a fraction of the salary.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Imran Siddiqui
|
 |
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
|
|
quote:
ceo's abilities are overrated |
I think for most people, they are underrated. People sit around and think they do nothing. They are required to do a good deal of work relying on a specialized set of skills that have taken years to develop.
It ain't as easy as it looks. Ask Ovitz for one.
quote:
boards are often a collection of "good old boys" who are helping out their buddies |
 Oh, come on, Sava... since when are the CEO the 'buddies' of the Board of Directors these days. Maybe in the past, but not in the current economy.
quote:
corporations are out of control and are making too much money and they don't know what to do with it |
Um... no. If corporations are making a ton of money, they realize the they can sink it into R&D or issue a lot of dividends, etc. There is never having too much money so you don't know what to do with it.
quote:
and probably scarcity of talent... while I won't agree with you when you say CEO's work so much harder than anyone else, I do think that the people qualified enough to be CEO's are few in number... it's not that CEO's are so talented like professional athletes, it's that they're the people who SUCK the least |
So everyone else sucks harder, Sava?  I'll agree with the scarcity, but you also have to realize the CEOs of the major Fortune 500 companies work hard, because if they don't, they are done. Shareholders are a very, very fickle group. Your small Mom & Pop CEOs may slack a bit, but they aren't under anywhere near the same pressures.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
General Ludd
|
|
Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:37
|
|
quote:
Um... wouldn't the non-profit not have enough money to pay for a super highly qualified CEO and relies instead on people's causes. Ie, a large salary is needed to entice a CEO to run a corporation which can be just like any other, |
That was my whole point, that a non-profit doesn't have enough money to pay their executives more than $100,000 tops, while corporate CEOs can make more than $10,000,000. yet they are both doing the same job - the only difference is the organization they're doing it for.
quote:
but part of the enticement of a non-profit is you believe in the mission of that non-profit. |
You just answered your own question - that's why someone would be a CEO without being paid an obscene amount of money.
If the mission of a multi-billion dollar corporation can not be believed in without excessive bribery, then it shouldn't exist - Because, obviously, it's only mission in that case is to be a multi-billion dollar corporatio , and not to actually benefit anyone else or do anything good for society.
quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
What, you think middle management acquired the same education and skill set of the top executives of a company? |
The fallacy was that a person who holds three jobs doesn't need signifigant training or skill.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
General Ludd
|
|
Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:37
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
You just answered your own question - that's why someone would be a CEO without being paid an obscene amount of money. |
Because they believed in cause? Not every business is a 'cause', nor should it be. And not every person will take a pay cut for a 'cause' either. |
Every buisness should have a cause beyond greed, without one they are nothing more than swindlers and scam artists.
quote:
quote:
If the mission of a multi-billion dollar corporation can not be believed in without excessive bribery, then it shouldn't exist - Because, obviously, it's only mission in that case is to be a multi-billion dollar corporatio , and not to actually benefit anyone else or do anything good for society. |
Yes, just tear down all the businesses who don't have a 'cause'. Guess that means you'll never be able to buy a computer again, or cook on a stove...  . |
Not buy a computer? Bad example. Technology is something that alot of CEO-types can really believe in. Likewise, providing quality and affordable appliances for people to use is something that a person could easily believe in. (and, indeed, I'm sure that's how they all began)
quote:
quote:
The fallacy was that a person who holds three jobs doesn't need signifigant training or skill. |
Unless we are talking 3 corporate executive jobs or 3 law jobs or 3 medical jobs, they don't. Most people who do have 3 jobs haven't gone to grad school. They may not have even completed college (they probably haven't). |
There are CEOs who haven't completed college, too... that's hardly any measure of the difficulty of the job(s) they are doing today.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
Imran Siddiqui
|
|
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sava
btw imran, if you want to talk about computers, let's look at some computer companies...
Dell and Gateway: two of the biggest, most successful computer companies... also, the worst and cheapest computers on the market... the same for other companies that sell PC's like Bestbuy, Circuit Shitty, etc.
Most of the best hardware comes from other companies that don't make as much money. |
Dell and Gateway, also responsible for a far higher percentage of people owning PCs than otherwise would. They are in it for the money, but in doing so, they have greatly expanded the number of people with computers.
The companies with the 'best hardware' charge more for them. The lower income people can't afford them. So much for being against concentration of wealth, eh, Sava?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
General Ludd
|
|
Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:37
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
quote:
Every buisness should have a cause beyond greed |
No, they shouldn't. They are created to make money and that's their cause. That's how they benefit society. |
No, that's how they benefit themselves.
quote:
Oh please, do you really think that most executives believe in the dream of providing computers to everyone or appliances for everyone? |
Not many do thesedays, I'm sure... mostly they all believe in is geting a 10 million dollar salary and pinching as much money out of other people's pockets as they can.
quote:
If that were the case, they would get back far less profit.
The cause they believe in is making money.
|
Exactly... pure greed. Swindlers, the lot of 'em.
An organization doesn't need to make obscene profits to benefit society... take my previous example of non-profit organizations, for example - typically the most beneficial of all buisnesses.
quote:
quote:
There are CEOs who haven't completed college, too... |
Who work for Disney? You were the one that said read the OP. How does Ovitz compare to a Mom&Pop store? |
Do you consider AOL Time Warner, Oracle, and Microsoft (to name only a few) to be "mom&pop stores"?
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Imran Siddiqui
|
|
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
|
|
quote:
An organization doesn't need to make obscene profits to benefit society... take my previous example of non-profit organizations, for example - typically the most beneficial of all buisnesses. |
Yet even when they take obscene amounts of profits, they've benefited society. IBM has benefited society so much they should give them a freaking medal.
quote:
Do you consider AOL Time Warner, Oracle, and Microsoft (to name only a few) to be "mom&pop stores"? |
Time Warner?! It's kind of hard to be a managing partner of a law firm before becoming CEO without a college degree. Yes, CEO Richard Parsons was a managing partner in the firm of Patterson, Belknap, Webb & Tyler. His graduated from University of Hawaii and Union University's Albany Law School.
Ellison (Oracle) and Gates (which I assumed you meant when talking about Microsoft - their current CEO, Steve Ballmer is a Harvard Graduate) are very different than what we are talking about and are the exception, not the rule. Both are the founders of their respective companies (ie, haven't been brought in by some Board to a massive salary) and created companies in a vastly new field which wasn't being taught sufficiently in universities. Both of them did indeed spend a few semesters at highly respected universities (Ellison at University of Illinois and University of Chicago and Gates at Harvard). Furthermore, since they created their companies and put together their massive empires, I think they deserve every penny they can get out of it.
Ellison and Gates are making the money they are because they founded those companies. If those will similar training want to form their own company, then they can go right ahead. But you seriously can't say they deserve as much as Ellison and Gates because they have the same training. Ellison and Gates have obviously shown greater skills. And how have they done so? By building their empires.
CEOs that are brought in, however, are highly educated and/or have demonstrated great skills (by running their own business).
When Ellison and Gates pass on, Oracle and Microsoft will turn over the CEO position to those who have been highly educated in the more prestigious schools of the day.
Last edited by Imran Siddiqui on 11-08-2005 at 01:55
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:37.
Apolyton Time is 00:37. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
10-08-2005 23:35
|