11-08-2005 04:00									#91
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quote: and what they said about the 90's boom is that things improved for working America despite the rich-getting-richer.

It was part and parcel of the same thing. The rich got richer because they sold more goods. That indicates that people were buying more (and consumption numbers bear that out). The rich get richer when the middle class and poor buy more. This is quite obvious.

quote: the problem is, with the help of Bush's retarded economic policies, the rich continued to get richer during the downturn in 2001 and subsequent jobless recovery

Um... did you see your CEO pay PDF? The fall was like a cliff. The pay has risen since 2002-3, but so has middle class and poor wealth.

quote: but don't let the facts get in your way

I'm not, but on the other hand, you've been factually challenged since the day you were born.

	11-08-2005 04:01									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui But the IRS Commissioner doesn't have to do that

I put that comment in there because of your "would youw ant to run a buisness the size of disney!?" remark no executive single handedly runs a buisness, most don't even have much part in, their jobs are mostly organizational and networking oriented.

quote: IBM, Apple, Dell, all are percieved as benefiting society. However, you don't have people that 'believe' in the cause to take a paycut to work at one of those companies.

What where Steve Jobs and Bill Gates doing when they droped out of college to found the buisnesses in the first place?

quote: Where are the people taking the pay cuts then?

Non-profits and small buisness, mainly.

quote: quote: But that's impossible, they didn't go through grad school, or even finish college! Obviously people who are working 3 jobs haven't demonstrated the skills to be running a Fortune 500 company and they probably won't unless they run a company themselves. DUH!

Just like past college degrees are not a good gauge on the difficult of present work, the fortune 500 is not a good gauge on the difficulty of a job or the amount of skill or training required to do it.

	11-08-2005 04:08									#93
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quote: I put that comment in there because of your "would youw ant to run a buisness the size of disney!?" remark no executive single handedly runs a buisness, most don't even have much part in, their jobs are mostly organizational and networking oriented.

Did anyone say they single handedly run a business? CEOs however, are intimately involved in what a business does beyond mere organization. It's not as if the CEO sets things up and lets the business run like a clockmaker winding his clock!

quote: What where Steve Jobs and Bill Gates doing when they droped out of college to found the buisnesses in the first place?

Trying to find a way to make some money.

quote: Just like past college degrees is not a good gauge on the difficult of present (and unrelated) work, the fortune 500 is not a good gauge on the difficulty of a job or the amount of skill or training required to do it.

Because it is easy to run a Fortune 500 company? Please. You have to have a lot of skill or training to run a Fortune 500 company. You can't just plug in General Ludd and have the same success. And if you are required to have a college degree for your job, then that is a pretty good gauge on how difficult it is (if you ain't the founder of a company, you better have a degree or years and years of experience).

	11-08-2005 04:09									#94
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Imran: well, my advice to you is to read the book, then maybe you can talk about this subject on a higher level with me

I really shouldn't get so frustrated, but it's like trying to talk about computers with someone from the 1800's

	11-08-2005 04:11									#95
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quote: I really shouldn't get so frustrated, but it's like trying to talk about computers with someone from the 1800's

I agree... get into the 21st Century, Sava.

	11-08-2005 04:12									#96
	Tired of ads?

Imran, you've been SAVAPWNED.

(i.e. you win)

	11-08-2005 04:20									#97
	Re: Let the Good Times Roll: Another Lousy CEO Gets $140 Million for Getting FIRED Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker What the hell is wrong with this place when people are getting this kinda crap after getting FIRED? This has become all too common and I'm sure I'll hear all the usual Captialist good soldier/whore crap about market value deciding compensation, blah blah. I wonder if any workers were laid off during his tenure. Certainly that 140 million could have been put to use in keeping their jobs. But this is PERVERTED. I'm gonna see if I can get fired too. http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/09/new...dex.htm?cnn=yes

I am amazed at the complete indifference and even silent support of the stupid things these companies do. You know in most lines of work if you **** up the job you lose it, no severence, nothing. Fact is that kind of sum of money would keep a lot of people in work. So why the condescending attitude like "this was 9 years ago". It's still relevant.

And as for the comment about making the same money as the janitor. Where the hell was anything to do with that said?

Sometimes I am sure the right-wingers at this place are just rabid and don't ever question what they hold sacred...

	11-08-2005 04:21									#98
	Re: Re: On the other hand... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Flubber The how come you are not in their jobs??? I think you need a better executive search type friend.

In many cases, it comes down to who you know and luck. In addition, an inordinate amount of CEOs are over 6 feet tall. For some reason, tall people get looked on as leaders more than shorter people. I am only 5 foot 10 inches tall.

	11-08-2005 04:42									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I put that comment in there because of your "would youw ant to run a buisness the size of disney!?" remark no executive single handedly runs a buisness, most don't even have much part in, their jobs are mostly organizational and networking oriented. Did anyone say they single handedly run a business? CEOs however, are intimately involved in what a business does beyond mere organization. It's not as if the CEO sets things up and lets the business run like a clockmaker winding his clock!

You think this is like 100 times more beneficial to society than everyone else does. So what? It's just your opinion.

	11-08-2005 05:00									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Imran, you've been SAVAPWNED. (i.e. you win)

do you even have pubic hair yet?

	11-08-2005 05:03									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Because it is easy to run a Fortune 500 company? Please. You have to have a lot of skill or training to run a Fortune 500 company.

And you need alot of skill or training to do countless other things... the Fortune 500 should never be used as a mesure of how difficult a job is. As I said at the start of this thread, someone can have a job twice as difficult as someone at the top of the fortune 500 while geting paid such a miniscule fraction of the salary that they would qualifiy for the misfortune 500.

	11-08-2005 07:08									#102
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quote: Originally posted by rah The severence package was agreed to as part of the hiring contract. If I was going to be work for Eisner, I'd want guarentees too. The amount was not determined on when he was fired.

Agreed.

Though things like incompetence or malice would constitute breach of contract, no?

	11-08-2005 07:15									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Because it is easy to run a Fortune 500 company? Please.

Actually, yes. Most of them have enough bureaucracy that they can run themselves without a couple of "top executives." How else would they go about when they are searching for a CEO?

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui You have to have a lot of skill or training to run a Fortune 500 company. You can't just plug in General Ludd and have the same success.

As pchang pointed out, it is who you know that counts. This is why so many people want to send their kinds to expensive prep schools - or better yet, traditional Ivy League universities.

If William Gates III's mother didn't know the Chairman of IBM, you think Big Blue would send a team to look at Microsoft when they were about to launch the PC?

	11-08-2005 07:48									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Actually, yes. Most of them have enough bureaucracy that they can run themselves without a couple of "top executives." How else would they go about when they are searching for a CEO?

If the bureaucracy can run itself, why look for a CEO in the first place? Treading water is not something any business wants for any length of time.

quote: As pchang pointed out, it is who you know that counts. This is why so many people want to send their kinds to expensive prep schools - or better yet, traditional Ivy League universities.

It may just be because they offer the best schooling environment perhaps? Prep Schools are better than most public schools. Ivy League schools offer some fo the best education in our entire university system. Sure some of it is who you know, but that aspect is far, far over stated.

	11-08-2005 07:57									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui It may just be because they offer the best schooling environment perhaps?

	11-08-2005 07:57									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious You think this is like 100 times more beneficial to society than everyone else does. So what? It's just your opinion.

No, it's the opinion of the controlling shareholders who control the board of directors who decide how executives get compensated.

It's not your decision, unless you own a piece of the company.

	11-08-2005 07:59									#107
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If you don't like how companies spend their money, then don't invest in them.

If you chose to, realize your .0001 percent share means jack.

	11-08-2005 08:05									#108
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither No, it's the opinion of the controlling shareholders who control the board of directors who decide how executives get compensated. It's not your decision, unless you own a piece of the company.

I didn't say anything about whose decision it is. The question isn't how beneficial they are to the share holders, but how beneficial to society compared to others.

	11-08-2005 08:09									#109
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How do you decide who is most beneficial?

Central committee?

	11-08-2005 08:10									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious

You ever seen an inner city school, Kid? Or Hell, even a public school in a rich area? Select private schools offer a far better learning environment. For one, they can kick out troublemakers. Secondly, they usually teach accelerated schedules. I mean there is a reason a lot of non-Catholics send their kids to Catholic private schools.

	11-08-2005 12:56									#111
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd I don't want to know what you're doing where you get hair in your mouth from looking at pornography.

I don't! Please don't tell us Flubber.

	11-08-2005 13:14									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Because they believed in cause? Not every business is a 'cause', nor should it be. And not every person will take a pay cut for a 'cause' either.

Being President of the United States only pays $200K a year (+$200K in expenses). I think that's far harder and you put up with far more **** than working for Eisner. Look what the job did to Carter. That man aged two decades in four years. On top of that, there are people out to kill you, and if you're a dufus like our current Prez, your name will be reviled throughout the world.

	11-08-2005 14:28									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui If the bureaucracy can run itself, why look for a CEO in the first place?

A CEO is not supposed to "run" a corporation, i.e. involves with the daily operations. Instead, the CEO is supposed to provide "vision" and long term development strategy for it.

Consider the President of the United States - the person is not involved with running the country.

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Treading water is not something any business wants for any length of time.

Huge dinosaurs do that remarkably well, they just move forward by inertia.

What do you think will hurt more, missing a CEO, or missing a number of engineers, scientists, and managers whose total salary is the same as the CEO?

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui It may just be because they offer the best schooling environment perhaps? Prep Schools are better than most public schools. Ivy League schools offer some fo the best education in our entire university system. Sure some of it is who you know, but that aspect is far, far over stated.

They may provide the best schooling environment - but the difference starts to diminish a decade or two of working experience.

Not just the people you get to know in school matters - also where you graduate from matters. If you have powerful alumni, you have a much easier time than if you don't. Who you know is extremely important. Even us geeks have meetings, banquets, and (gasp) balls so we can network. Networks are very important, because not only you can get important information through them, but you can open doors denied to others as well.

	11-08-2005 15:37									#114
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Sava Imran: well, my advice to you is to read the book, then maybe you can talk about this subject on a higher level with me I really shouldn't get so frustrated, but it's like trying to talk about computers with someone from the 1800's

Hey dude, why don't you talk to some industry experts?

	11-08-2005 16:26									#115
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Being President of the United States only pays $200K a year (+$200K in expenses). I think that's far harder and you put up with far more **** than working for Eisner.

Yeah, but no one becomes President for the money (from salary) anyway.

	11-08-2005 16:38									#116
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Thay can give 500 000 $ speaches for the rest of their lives

	11-08-2005 16:52									#117
	Tired of ads?

That too.

	11-08-2005 18:58									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui You ever seen an inner city school, Kid?

Yeah, I worked at one. There were some of the best damn teachers I've seen there.

quote: Or Hell, even a public school in a rich area? Select private schools offer a far better learning environment. For one, they can kick out troublemakers. Secondly, they usually teach accelerated schedules. I mean there is a reason a lot of non-Catholics send their kids to Catholic private schools.

UR wasn't talking about Catholic school. He was talking about Ivy league colleges. While your kid may not learn as much at an inner city school he or she can learn just as much at a public university or even a JC. It's up to them. Rich people just send there kids to Ivy league colleges in hopes of them becoming CEOs.

	11-08-2005 19:02									#119
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither How do you decide who is most beneficial? Central committee?

Personally I think it's pretty obvious that CEOs are over compensated in the current system.

	11-08-2005 19:06									#120
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quote: Originally posted by rah Now was 140 mil too much, probably so, but if you can negotiate that type of serverence when you're hired, you probably worth every penny of it.

It also means that the workers' union is too damn spineless or legally encumbered, because that money would have been going to them if they were as effective as they should be.