12-08-2005 14:11									#1
	4 goodness sake Increase the size of your Attachments

The modding engine in civ4 is rumored to be V-12 and turbo-charged.

possibly, as examples; the unit formation editor, hot swapping of assets, Python scripting for the WorldBuilder, a Python interpreter console, L-System city building, Python editible UI, colored map overlays, and more. (thnx civ fanatics, warpstorm) GameDeveloper Magazine is excited, but costs money to read the article.

Anyway, just currious; if the scenario tools (and game itself, i suppose) are good enough in civ 4, would you consider abandoning civ2?

	12-08-2005 14:27									#2
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At this point, hell no! I'm happy with Civ 2's engine; the newer strategy games' editors always frustrate me to tears.

	12-08-2005 14:52									#3
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I will always have a place in my heart for CIV2...

	12-08-2005 18:54									#4
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Since civ IV will not work on my machine due to flisshy-flashy graphics, no.

	12-08-2005 23:22									#5
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quote: Originally posted by biru biru The modding engine in civ4 is rumored to be V-12 and turbo-charged. possibly, as examples; the unit formation editor, hot swapping of assets, Python scripting for the WorldBuilder, a Python interpreter console, L-System city building, Python editible UI, colored map overlays, and more.

I feel like an illiterate... what is Python? L-System? UI? V-12?

What four years of not keeping in touch with the computer game world can do to you...

	13-08-2005 21:43									#6
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V-12 is some sort of big car engine, with 12 cylinders I suppose. So he's comparing the "modding engine" of Civ4 to a spiffy car engine.

Python is a computer programming language. So we'd have the full power of a programming language to do events etc. rather than just the fairly simple events macro thing we have now.

UI means user interface.

L-System seems to be something fractal-ish. A grammar some biologist devised to describe plant-growth.


In any case, none of those have anything to do with computer games specifically, so you don't have to worry just yet.

	14-08-2005 01:54									#7
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python as in Monty-Python?

Monty-Python's Civilization 4

	14-08-2005 03:11									#8
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Well, actually, I think the guy who created the Python programming language named it after Monty Python... But it's an already existing language, so completely unrelated to Civ4 other than that Civ4 uses it.

	14-08-2005 03:27									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Mercator V-12 is some sort of big car engine, with 12 cylinders I suppose. So he's comparing the "modding engine" of Civ4 to a spiffy car engine.

12 Cylinders set in a V-shape, with one and one alternating towards each direction. Different from the in-line design of most 4-cylinder cars, and radial engines used in certain mid WW-2 airplanes (and I don't know what else)

	14-08-2005 05:14									#10
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quote: Originally posted by N35t0r 12 Cylinders set in a V-shape, with one and one alternating towards each direction. Different from the in-line design of most 4-cylinder cars, and radial engines used in certain mid WW-2 airplanes (and I don't know what else)

I had a Mazda RX-7 with one . I think the RX-8's did too.

	15-08-2005 23:47									#11
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Busted agian trying to sound smarter than I am by copy-pasting sections of text. I've really never known anything about cars.

Anyway, thanks Mercator for the second line links Especially the stuff on python: That the game programmers are giving deep access to the game, for customizing events and such, sounds great!

Of course, learning a programming language, even a 'flexible' and 'fun' one (thnx to wikipedia link above) is a bit much for me to bite off. With enough dedicated programmers working on it, the rest of us can hope for tutorials and help enough to get it eventually, if the civ 2 community is any indication though.

Anyway, I'm still learning, and loving, civ 2. Admit that I have high hopes for civ 4.

I'll do some more browsing this week for other clues as to what the modding engine will look like. V-shaped, F-shaped, U-shaped, let's C it...!

	15-08-2005 23:50									#12
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Oh yeah, that stuff about Monty Python seems true, at least from the same wikipedia article...

	09-09-2005 20:35									#13
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These guys at civ fanatics are working on learning the programming languages for the modding engine:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=97183

with big wrenches

	09-09-2005 21:37									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man I had a Mazda RX-7 with one . I think the RX-8's did too.

Actually you didn't - you had a rotary (****el) engine in your RX-7 (stop sniggering at the back - I said ****el!).

You'll find V-12's in the bigger-engined Ferraris (512s etc) for example.


EDIT: ROTFL, the damned Apolyton censor won't let me say W ankel

	10-09-2005 02:24									#15
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or, for those of you who are more familiar with the aircraft units on this site than you are with overpriced Italian cars, for an example of an excellent V-12, look no further than the Allison engine that powered the P-40, P-39, P-38, and P-51a/A-36

for an example of a fair V-12, look no further than the P-51B/C/D, Spitfire, and i believe Lancaster and Hurricane.

and in answer to the initial question, i don't think i'll ever stop playing civ2. some day, in the far off distant future, my kids (or more likely, my nephews and nieces) will scoff at me, never realizing how awesome of a game it is.

civ2 can be modified so easily- even i can pull it off- with all of the games that have come out since, i can't imagine any new games coming out that can be modified without a four year degree in programming and graphic arts.

	10-09-2005 08:46									#16
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quote: Originally posted by N35t0r Since civ IV will not work on my machine due to flisshy-flashy graphics, no.

Which is now actually not true

	10-09-2005 23:20									#17
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You don't need a new machine for flashy graphics - you just need one of Curt's scenarios.

Or, to be honest, one of pretty much everyone here's.

	11-09-2005 01:18									#18
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nono, there's a difference between great, amazing, unbelievable graphics (which can, as proved here, be 2d sprites of visible resolution); to flisshy-flassy graphics, which can be 3d and all that stuff, but still be a load of cr4p...

	11-09-2005 06:20									#19
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quote: Originally posted by N35t0r nono, there's a difference between great, amazing, unbelievable graphics (which can, as proved here, be 2d sprites of visible resolution); to flisshy-flassy graphics, which can be 3d and all that stuff, but still be a load of cr4p...

depends on the texture artist,

	11-09-2005 17:59									#20
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quote: Originally posted by fairline Actually you didn't - you had a rotary (****el) engine in your RX-7 (stop sniggering at the back - I said ****el!). You'll find V-12's in the bigger-engined Ferraris (512s etc) for example. EDIT: ROTFL, the damned Apolyton censor won't let me say W ankel

True, I was referencing the rotary engine on the Mazda, not the V-12!

IIRC the E-type Jaguars had a V-12 though. Ex-gf from a while back had one of those!

	11-09-2005 21:20									#21
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Ah right, sorry.

Hang on, no you didn't!

You had a rotary engine, not a radial engine etc etc.

(Apologies for this know-it-all crap but I do engines for a living)

A G/F with an E-type is worth keeping, even if it was the straight-six version not the later V-12 MkIII (damn, there I go again. Ignore me).

	11-09-2005 21:49									#22
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Well, that was about 20 years ago... I hope the car's in the same shape it was then, but I doubt that she is, unfortunately!

Radial v rotary - never did know what the exact difference was.

	11-09-2005 23:04									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man Well, that was about 20 years ago... I hope the car's in the same shape it was then, but I doubt that she is, unfortunately!

quote: Radial v rotary - never did know what the exact difference was.

Oh no, I can't help myself....

A radial engine is a conventional reciprocating engine like a straight-four or V12, where the pistons move up and down in a cylinder and are connected to a crank-shaft by con-rods. The aero-engine radials had their cylinders arranged in a circular fashion around the crank which rotated the propeller, and were air-cooled rather than water-cooled as in a conventional straight-four.

The W ankel or rotary engine is a radically different concept; the triangular-shaped 'piston' or rotor itself rotates in the 'cylinder' and translates power directly without the need for con-rods.

Well you did ask. I'll shut up now

	12-09-2005 04:55									#24
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heh heh

	14-09-2005 17:00									#25
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quote: Originally posted by fairline EDIT: ROTFL, the damned Apolyton censor won't let me say W ankel

Just use italics boxes with nothing in between them, and the autocensor won't detect it. You can also make "posts of silence" to remember any tragedies.

Thus: W a n [ i ] [ / i ] k e l without the spaces becomes Wankel.

Beware: Abuse this, and the mods will not be in the least forgiving.
In fact, I shall edit this post (if I remember) to remove its contents within a day or two, if the mods don't do it first. If you're desperate to use such words, just ask the mods to add them to the list for the autocensor.

	14-09-2005 21:22									#26
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Oh OK, thanks for that. I can't think I'll need to use the word wankel too many times in future though

	14-09-2005 21:39									#27
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OT - curiosity. Why has the wankel not really caught on, Gareth? It delivers more power, is simpler and lighter than a piston engine - am I right?

	14-09-2005 22:53									#28
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Yes, they produce more power for a given swept volume, they're smaller, lighter and contain fewer moving parts.

The downsides are huge difficulty with maintaining effective sealing without using fairly exotic materials. HC emissions and BSFC (fuel consumption) are much higher than a reciprocating engine as well, which are the real killers. Mazda seems to like them though.

	15-09-2005 04:11									#29
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I know I'm pushing the patience of the mods, but is there some reason why they're not used in aircraft? It seems that the advantages would be more advantageous and the disadvantages less so in that application.

	15-09-2005 13:21									#30
	Re: 4 goodness sake Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by biru biru GameDeveloper Magazine is excited, but costs money to read the article.

Has any computer magazine not been excited by an uncoming release of anything?

quote: Anyway, just currious; if the scenario tools (and game itself, i suppose) are good enough in civ 4, would you consider abandoning civ2?

Definetly. Civ 2 is a great game, but it's almost 10 years old!