14-08-2005 01:53									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Yeah, Russia is huge territory where half of it is in a horrible state, Luxembourg is a small and efficient territory with a good overall level .

Yeah, but one nuke and it's gone.

	14-08-2005 01:54									#32
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Maybe two nukes. One nuke for Lietchtenstein (or however the hell you spell it).

	14-08-2005 04:02									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Yeah, Russia is huge territory where half of it is in a horrible state, Luxembourg is a small and efficient territory with a good overall level .

But Russia is still the stronger country. And I'm sure that Putin has more money to spend then the premier of Luxembourg.

Size does matter in the end. But a luxembourg-alike country with 60% of the size of Russia will beat Russia every day.

	14-08-2005 04:17									#34
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy But Russia is still the stronger country. And I'm sure that Putin has more money to spend then the premier of Luxembourg. Size does matter in the end. But a luxembourg-alike country with 60% of the size of Russia will beat Russia every day.

I'll not go so far. Not every day... Some winter days are really cold over there - but close.
CyberShy you're damn right. A Luxemburg-alike country with 60 - no, say 40% (or less!) of the size of Russia would be a super-power.
Size matters, but in a relative way.

	14-08-2005 04:20									#35
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In Civ terms, Luxembourg would be maybe 2 size-6 cities while Russia would be a dozen size 20 cities and two dozen smaller cities, so yeah, it's not fair to compare.

I hope though that in Civ4, such a Russia would require a highly powerful economy to even sustain itself, and without that, start to fall behind in productivity and tech.

	14-08-2005 19:04									#36
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I just try to paint how size does matter, so ICS should always more or less work. But it shouldn't be so that the biggest empire automaticly wins. I think that doesn't happen in cIIIv though.

I have never had any ICS problems in civ3.
I can beat the civ3 Deity eventhough it ICS's like an idiot.

	14-08-2005 19:56									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Yeah, but one nuke and it's gone.

Then you try really hard to avoid that nuke. It's the age old choice of whether to put all your eggs in one basket. There's no right answer all the time.

quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Maybe two nukes. One nuke for Lietchtenstein (or however the hell you spell it).

Liechtenstein is not part of Luxembourg.

	14-08-2005 20:13									#38
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Lichenstein is smaller. I'd believe that's what he meant.

	15-08-2005 04:46									#39
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Nikolai gets a gold star.

	15-08-2005 07:30									#40
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You see, I have this theory that Health and Great People are going to be two things which will make ICS a very poor strategy indeed. Why?

Well, firstly, I have a gut feeling that workers, settlers (and possibly even other units) will cost you HEALTH , not population points. If base growth rate is also tied to current population, then these two factors I feel will make it vitally important for a city to have either a decent population or a decent health if it is going to produce enough settlers to engage in ICS behaviour.
Secondly, I believe that cities will be able to become more specialised than ever, as city growth will no longer be tied to a need to work every fertile tile in sight. Instead, city growth will probably be sustainable by the health generated by 'food trade' and improvements. What I feel this means is that churning out settlers and sending them out in all directions during the BC era (and settling them in a way as to minimize space between cities) will be counterproductive when compared to nurturing a few key cities, specialising them in order to produce Great People who can give your culture, production, economy and/or science a massive supercharged boost.
Anyway, maybe I am being overly optimistic, but thats how I see it coming together.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

	15-08-2005 15:37									#41
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I would like to see what news articles you've read that have encouraged that interpretation.

Although it will be governed by different ways, I suspect Health will be more akin to SMACs growth, giving a 10%/30%/50% etc growth bonus. Settlers would cost population as normal.

However, the intriuging possibility exists in my interpretation that the highest state of Health is Pop Boom.

But we're both hoping for too much I suspect.

	15-08-2005 15:52									#42
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Senethro, did you notice I used words like 'Gut Feeling' and 'Theory'. Now I admit that I have nothing on which to base the first part of my theory except hope-and a belief that it would make perfect sense to make units cost health that way. The second part of my belief, though, in regards to Great People is based largely on the most recent article.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

	15-08-2005 17:26									#43
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An excellent gut feeling there Aussie . This should be also marked down on the list of posts to come back to after the game is released.

	15-08-2005 17:56									#44
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Why is that Solver?

	15-08-2005 18:34									#45
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In one article Soren said that he wanted to reduce the unfunness of late the game by encouraging players to make fewer, but better cities. Yes, yes I'll look for the link.


Edit:

Actually looking through all the previews for that one line is unfun. You'll just have to be satisfied with this uber compilation:

city essentials

"The game is more balanced towards not having as many cities. You will, however, still have a broad area. The focus is to have fewer but more specialized cities."

Last edited by 1889 on 15-08-2005 at 18:50

	15-08-2005 20:43									#46
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Hmmmm. Perhaps we're going to see super-science-cities and super-money-cities make a return. They might even produce Great Scientists and Great Merchants as a by-product.

	15-08-2005 21:25									#47
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quote: Originally posted by alva Why is that Solver?

Because there are some prediction posts that I want to come back to later and see if they were correct. The special case is, of course Yin, where I'll be coming back to his posts just to see how much cardboard he has to eat .

	16-08-2005 01:34									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Because there are some prediction posts that I want to come back to later and see if they were correct. The special case is, of course Yin, where I'll be coming back to his posts just to see how much cardboard he has to eat .

Naaah, we know there is someone here that know much because of beta testing all the way since many months ago.

Maybe you are joking at our back all the time because you are one of the chosen...

	16-08-2005 01:36									#49
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Ah! Nothing's like a good conspiracy theory before bed!

	16-08-2005 02:43									#50
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quote: Naaah, we know there is someone here that know much because of beta testing all the way since many months ago.

Give us the names! I'd also like to know who are the lucky ones to be playing Civ4 now .

	16-08-2005 02:56									#51
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I'd guess that's classified by a non-disclosure agreement, Solver.

	16-08-2005 02:59									#52
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Aha, so if you say that, then you're probably among them .

	16-08-2005 03:05									#53
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No, but I have been awake when the info and calling for beta testers for Paradox's games have been announced.

	16-08-2005 03:06									#54
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And you're allowed to say that ?

	16-08-2005 03:16									#55
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What? I have never been a beta. Ever. But I have read the announcements Paradox gives when they asks for betas. As I said. But this is all I can say without killing you.

	16-08-2005 03:48									#56
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I was a beta tester for Hearts of Iron. Well, technically no, since I only joined it after the game was already out to do work on the AI. The game was a little past the 'beta' stage by that point in time...

	16-08-2005 03:50									#57
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Forget that, you have mcuh more interesting info to come with.

	16-08-2005 04:28									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Give us the names! I'd also like to know who are the lucky ones to be playing Civ4 now .

That's what we need, a "Civ4 Beta-Testers Identification" List.
Rhye (of Rhye's of Civ fame at CFC)
... who else?

	16-08-2005 05:01									#59
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I am a beta tester and so is my wife


as a wise man once suggested about beta testers

look for those not particpating or a lower amount of participation in these hallowed forums

	16-08-2005 05:08									#60
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quote: look for those not particpating or a lower amount of participation in these hallowed forums

I can see someone writing a program that takes in account the number of posts per day here, and gives an estimate based on that .