02-09-2005 21:49									#211
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Gangerolf: (-> german)

quote: First Poem: Mein Geist ist in ein temporäre Traumzustand Ich habe nicht die mindeste Angst für die Menschliche Sie ist eine parasitisches Wesen, daß alles wählen können Eindruckweckende in ihre jahrliche Beschäftigungen Jetzt hat sie keine Bewegung ohne Kraft Sie hört nicht, was sie nicht seht Sie bewegt sich mit der Bewegung von alles Mit den Bergen, den Steinen und den Bäumen

quote: Second Poem: Ich gebe, daß ich mich selbst manchmal als Idiot finden Vor alles wenn ich mich die Witze ich heute habe mitgemacht erindert Aber normal gesprochen kriege ich die Idé, daß ich doch normal bin Ich bin enorm zufrieden mit freundliche ich, da ist wo ich zugehöre

Seems like a perfect translation of CyberShy's dutch (ofc that's kind of a false conclusion, since I deduced what CyberShy wrote based on what Gangerolf translated, but well). A really small sidenote: there are no accents in german, Idé = Idee
It's great reading for anybody who understands german

	02-09-2005 21:49									#212
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Wernazuma III: (-> french)

quote: First Poem: Mon esprit se trouve dans une condition de rêve, je n'ai aucun peur de l'humain, qui est un être parasitaire que peut choisir tout, faisant impression avec ses activitées annuelles. Alors, il n'a pas de mouvement sans force, il n'entend pas ce qu'il ne voit pas il meut avec le mouvement de tout, avec les montagnes, les pierres et les arbres.

quote: Second Poem: J'admets me prendre pour un idiot quelquefois, surtout quand je rappelle les blagues que j'enfourchais aujourd'hui. Mais, parlant raisonnablement, j'ai danc l'idée d'être normal, et je suis très content avec mon Moi aimable a ce que j'appartiens.

Looks good, I couldn't find much that has changed, but then my french sucks. Spiffor could probably tell better, but I think Wernazuma III has not changed much.

	02-09-2005 21:49									#213
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Next is the full english translation by Flandrien!

quote: First Poem: My mind is dreaming, I do not fear the man at all (1) that is the parasite that can choose it all, making an impression with his yearly activities. So, it cannot move without strength, It does not hear what it does not see, it moves with the movement of everything, with the mountains, the rocks and the trees. (2)

quote: Second Poem: I admit I sometimes take myself for a fool, especially when I remember the jokes I pulled today. But, speaking frankly, I still feel like I am normal, and I am very pleased with my charming Self, to whom I belong.

Very interesting here how "human" changed to introduce a new person "the man" in line (1). Also watch how the line in (2) had changed from "with rocks, and stones, and trees"
The second poem is still in good shape, it's distortion takes much longer than the harder first poem. Still it's in a funny state

	02-09-2005 21:49									#214
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Back to french again by Krill:

quote: First Poem: Mon esprit est rêve, Je suis intrépide de cet homme. Cet parasite choisi quelquechose (1) faire impression au ton annuel acivité d'oú, ce n'est pas déménagement sauf solidité, quelquechose ce n'est pas voir, ce n'est pas entendre c'est progresser au tout le monde, au mons, au caillou, au arbres

quote: Second Poem: Oui, souvent je suis téméraire, surtout quand je me rappelé les truc je fais aujourd'hui. Mais, si je parlé franchement, je ne suis pas autrement que l'ai ferai et je suis heureux avec mon-même charme, avec que je suis membre de (2)

(1) "Quelque chose" in french means something, so we're leaving the field of choosing it all to choosing something from now on
(2) "que je suis membre de"

	02-09-2005 21:49									#215
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Az (what have you done???): (-> russian)

quote: First Poem: мой дух он сон а я храбрость этого человека этот паразит выбрал кое-что влиять на твоё ежегодное действие от куда это не разбор без крепкости что-то это не видетьэ это не понимать это продвигатся по всему миру в холмах, в кустах и по деревьям

quote: Second Poem: и так, от ныне я всегда когда я себе напоминаю трюки которые я делаю сегодня но если сказать честно, я не изменюсь от своих действий и я рад своему собственомму шарму, кого я являюсь членом

I don't understand russian, but I understand that the second poem suddenly has 5 lines

	02-09-2005 21:49									#216
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Pave: (-> swedish)

quote: First Poem: Min luft han drömma (1) och jag uppmuntrade den här mannen den här parasit valde något flög till din årlig verksamhet från vilken de inte valet utan hårt någonting de kan inte ser det de kan inte förstå de flytta till överallt världen Till kullar, till buskar och till landet

quote: Second Poem: Och ja, från nu jag alltid vann jag minns knepen för min själv som jag gör idag men om vi ska prata sant, jag vill inte flyttar bort från min gärningar och jag är trevlig omkring min innehavares positivet, vars jag visar disponerade.

btw, (1) "luft" is the german word for "air"

	02-09-2005 21:49									#217
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Winston: (-> german)

quote: First Poem: Er träumt meine Luft (1) und ich habe diesen Mann ermutigt dieser Schmarotzer hat etwas gewählt flog an dein alljährliches Unternehmen von welchem sie nicht ohne Mühe wählten etwas das sie nicht sehen, das sie nicht verstehen können sie ziehen in aller Welt um in Löchern, in Gebüsche, aufs Land

quote: Second Poem: Und ja, von da an gewann ich immer ich erinnere mich an die Kniffe wie auch heute aber wenn wir die Wahrheit reden, ich will vor meine Taten nicht fliehen und ich bin darüber froh dass mein Besitzer damit zufrieden ist die Art und Weise wie ich verfügt habe

(1) what did I say the sentence translated: "He's dreaming my air"
Anyway, as I said before this was a really awesome job and reads quite fine for a poem. Of course it means something totally different now
We'll see in the next english translation

Note, the second poem has changed, this is something completely and totally different

	02-09-2005 21:50									#218
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Adagio: (-> danish)

quote: First Poem: Han drømmer min luft og jeg har gjort denne man mere modig denne parasit valgte noget fløj til dit årlige foretagende fra hvilket hun ikke uden uden at tilstræbe valgte noget som hun ikke kan se, som ikke kan forstå hun rejser rundt i hele verden i huller, buske, på land

quote: Second Poem: Og ja, fra det øjeblik vandt jeg altid jeg erindrer alle tricks som også i dag dog når vi læser sandheden, jeg vil ikke flygte fra hvad jeg gjorde og jeg er glad over at min ejer er tilfreds med det den den måde jeg gjorde det

	02-09-2005 21:50									#219
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Aivo½so: (-> finnish)

quote: First Poem: Hän uneksii ilmaani ja olen tehnyt miehestä rohkeamman tämä loiseläjä valitsi jotain lensi vuotuiseen edesottamukseesi josta nainen, ei pyrkimättä, valitsi jotain mitä hän ei näe, mikä ei ymmärrä hän matkustaa ympäri maailman rei'issä, pusikossa, maalla

quote: Second Poem: Ja kyllä, siitä hetkestä lähtien voitin aina muistan kaikki temput vielä tänään tosin kun luemme totuuden, en halua paeta tekemääni ja olen iloinen siitä, että omistajani tyytyy siihen sillä niin tein sen

Sucks to speak only so many languages...

	02-09-2005 21:50									#220
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Another english translation, this time by Kassiopeia:

quote: First Poem: He dreams of my presence And I have given him courage The parasite made a choice And lunged at your annual venture Without trying she made a choice Chose something she can't understand She travels around the world In the caves, the forests, the earth

quote: Second Poem: Oh yes, and from then on I always prevailed (1) I recall all the tricks even now Though when we learn the truth, I won't flee from what I've done I will be happy that my owner will be satisfied

(1) Notice how it changed from bore, to fool and now to "I always prevailed"
Btw, the second one is back to 4 lines again... but

	02-09-2005 21:50									#221
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Karoch: (-> spanish)

quote: First Poem: Sueña con mi presencia y yo le doy valor. La alimaña ha elegido y acomete su labor. Ha elegido sin quererlo (1) eligió algo que no entiende. Viajar alrededor del mundo por cuevas, bosques, tierra.

quote: Second Poem: Oh, sí, desde entonces siempre gané, incluso ahora recuerdo las trampas. Pero mientras se revela la verdad, no renegaré de mis actos. Estaré contento si mi amo queda satisfecho.

We got a nice twist in (1)

	02-09-2005 21:50									#222
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Spiffor: (-> french)

quote: First Poem: Elle est a mes côtés Et je le vaux sans doute. La belle du matin m'a choisi Puis elle s'est mise au travail. Elle m'a choisi sans hésiter M'a choisi sans même me connaître. Je vais au bout du monde. par les vallées, par les forêts, par la terre.

quote: Second Poem: Oh oui, à toujours gagner, on n'est guère préparé pour le malheur. Mais la vérité est mienne, je ne regrette pas mes actes. Je suis content d'avoir comblé mon amour.

	02-09-2005 21:50									#223
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Lord of the mark: (-> english) final!

quote: First Poem: She is at my side, And i value her, without a doubt. The morning beauty has chosen me. Since then, she has put me to work. She chose me without hesitation, Without even knowing me. I am going to the ends of the earth By the valleys, by the forest, by the dirt.

quote: Second Poem: Yes, always earning, one is scarcely prepared for sorrow. but the truth is mine, I regret nothing Ive done Its enough to have been with my love on the morrow.

	02-09-2005 21:51									#224
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I think it also makes sense to look at the intermediate versions of the french poems, since we got four of those. Btw, this makes french the language the text was translated too most often (if you exclude that the original authors had to translate from emotions/rationality -> english).

First is chilean president:

quote: Mon esprit a estampillé un rêve Je n'avais aucune peur humaine Elle paraissait être quelque chose qui ne peut pas être senti L'effet d'années mondaines. Maintenant elle n'a aucun mouvement ni force Elle n'entend pas ni voit Ils rôdent par tous côtés dans le cours quotidien du monde Avec des roches, pierres et arbres

Then there was Wernazuma III:

quote: Mon esprit se trouve dans une condition de rêve, je n'ai aucun peur de l'humain, qui est un être parasitaire que peut choisir tout, faisant impression avec ses activitées annuelles. Alors, il n'a pas de mouvement sans force, il n'entend pas ce qu'il ne voit pas il meut avec le mouvement de tout, avec les montagnes, les pierres et les arbres.

After a quick translation to english, Krill again went back to french:

quote: Mon esprit est rêve, Je suis intrépide de cet homme. Cet parasite choisi quelquechose faire impression au ton annuel acivité d'oú, ce n'est pas déménagement sauf solidité, quelquechose ce n'est pas voir, ce n'est pas entendre c'est progresser au tout le monde, au mons, au caillou, au arbres

Finally, Spiffor did the last one:

quote: Elle est a mes côtés Et je le vaux sans doute. La belle du matin m'a choisi Puis elle s'est mise au travail. Elle m'a choisi sans hésiter M'a choisi sans même me connaître. Je vais au bout du monde. par les vallées, par les forêts, par la terre.

Same for the second poem - Chilean President:

quote: J'admets qu'en quelques temps je me considère un idiot Spécialement quand je me dirai les blagues que j'ai déjà écouter Mais ordinairement, je trouve que je suis un taux très bon J'aime énormément d'être avec moi même et en outre je m'aime aussi.

Wernazuma III:

quote: J'admets me prendre pour un idiot quelquefois, surtout quand je rappelle les blagues que j'enfourchais aujourd'hui. Mais, parlant raisonnablement, j'ai danc l'idée d'être normal, et je suis très content avec mon Moi aimable a ce que j'appartiens.

Krill:

quote: Oui, souvent je suis téméraire, surtout quand je me rappelé les truc je fais aujourd'hui. Mais, si je parlé franchement, je ne suis pas autrement que l'ai ferai et je suis heureux avec mon-même charme, avec que je suis membre de

Spiffor:

quote: Oh oui, à toujours gagner, on n'est guère préparé pour le malheur. Mais la vérité est mienne, je ne regrette pas mes actes. Je suis content d'avoir comblé mon amour.

	02-09-2005 21:51									#225
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For completeness, here is also a comparison of the two spanish translations done.

First one by Bosh:

quote: Mi espirito selló un sueño Yo no tenía ningún miedo humano Ella se parecía ser algo que no puede sentir El efecto de años mundanalos Ahora ella tiene ningun movimiento ni fuerza Ella ni oyen ni ven Se rodan por todos lados en el curso diario del mundo Con rocas, piedras y árboles

then by Karoch:

quote: Sueña con mi presencia y yo le doy valor. La alimaña ha elegido y acomete su labor. Ha elegido sin quererlo eligió algo que no entiende. Viajar alrededor del mundo por cuevas, bosques, tierra.

Same for the second poem - Bosh:

quote: Yo admito que algunos tiempos me considero un pelmazo Especialmente cuando yo me digo los chistes que yo ya oído Pero ordinariamente, hallo que yo soy un muy bien tipo Yo tengo gusto de estar con me muchisimo, y además yo me gusto también

Karoch:

quote: Oh, sí, desde entonces siempre gané, incluso ahora recuerdo las trampas. Pero mientras se revela la verdad, no renegaré de mis actos. Estaré contento si mi amo queda satisfecho.

	02-09-2005 21:51									#226
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And a comparison of the two german translations:

First one by Gangerolf:

quote: Mein Geist ist in ein temporäre Traumzustand Ich habe nicht die mindeste Angst für die Menschliche Sie ist eine parasitisches Wesen, daß alles wählen können Eindruckweckende in ihre jahrliche Beschäftigungen Jetzt hat sie keine Bewegung ohne Kraft Sie hört nicht, was sie nicht seht Sie bewegt sich mit der Bewegung von alles Mit den Bergen, den Steinen und den Bäumen

Then by Winston:

quote: Er träumt meine Luft und ich habe diesen Mann ermutigt dieser Schmarotzer hat etwas gewählt flog an dein alljährliches Unternehmen von welchem sie nicht ohne Mühe wählten etwas das sie nicht sehen, das sie nicht verstehen können sie ziehen in aller Welt um in Löchern, in Gebüsche, aufs Land

Same for the second poem - Gangerolf:

quote: Ich gebe, daß ich mich selbst manchmal als Idiot finden Vor alles wenn ich mich die Witze ich heute habe mitgemacht erindert Aber normal gesprochen kriege ich die Idé, daß ich doch normal bin Ich bin enorm zufrieden mit freundliche ich, da ist wo ich zugehöre

Winston:

quote: Und ja, von da an gewann ich immer ich erinnere mich an die Kniffe wie auch heute aber wenn wir die Wahrheit reden, ich will vor meine Taten nicht fliehen und ich bin darüber froh dass mein Besitzer damit zufrieden ist die Art und Weise wie ich verfügt habe

	02-09-2005 21:51									#227
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finished, you can start laughing now

	02-09-2005 22:04									#229
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What...

...The...

...****!?!


I really want to know how badly I screwed up the second point that Ata made...

	02-09-2005 22:06									#230
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa As for the second poem, it's translated okay, but it's beginning to sound very strange. Also in (6) the "so do I" changed to something that Gangerolf translated then as "where I belong" (I don't know the direct dutch-english translation (online translater suggests: "that is of which I hold").

yeah I made a guess based on the context there. I thought it could mean something like "where i come from" or "where i belong" but I wasn't sure at all.

	02-09-2005 22:27									#232
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Absolutely brilliant rundown of all the versions, Atahualpa! You put a lot of effort into this, thanks very much. I thought about this earlier also, the way you set up the path was very well done, taking into consideration the fluent/non-fluent/for fun abilities of people (my impression was you thought about this in setting up the path).

Excellent show.

I'm having some graphic troubles with the forum, will comment more later.

	02-09-2005 22:29									#233
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Ata: Well, so that you can comment my own mangle-up, here's how I interpreted the Spanish poem

Sueña(1) con mi presencia(2)
y yo le doy valor(3).
La alimaña(4) ha elegido(5)
y acomete(6) su labor(7).

Ha elegido sin quererlo (8)
eligió algo que(9) no entiende(10).
Viajar(11) alrededor del mundo(12)
por cuevas, bosques, tierra.

Second Poem:
Oh, sí, desde entonces(13) siempre gané,
incluso ahora recuerdo las trampas(14).
Pero mientras(15) se revela la verdad, no renegaré de mis actos.
Estaré contento si mi amo(16) queda satisfecho(17).

LOTM did a good job at translating me. A few mistakes, but overaqll the botching was mine

(1) I thought it was like "soy", a form of the verb "to be", for women.
(2) "with my presence". Assuming we talk about a women, that would be "at my side"
(3) "doy valor". Well, obviously it must mean "je dois le valoir", i.e. "I must be worth it"
(4) I seriously wondered if "Alimana" was Germany. But I remembered it would be "Alemana" then. Since we were talking about a girl, and since I know the word "manana", I thought she was the beauty of the morning.
(5) "elegido" must have something to do with "elected", doesn't it?
(6) First word for which I looked up on the internet. Considering how many times governments "acomete" a plan, it seemed like it meant "enterprising" something. With the word (7)"labor" (labeur - labour) just behind, I understood that the woman initated a session of hard work.
(8) "quererlo" looked like related to the French word "quérir", which means "to seek, to look for". Since the woman wasn't looking any further, the meaning was that she wasn't hesitating.
(9) "algo que" looks like "alors que" (even though). It also looks like "algue" (seaweed), but I thought it was out of context.
(10) "entiende" probably shares his root with "entendre" (to hear) or "tenir" (to hold). I guessed that the meaning was something like hearing/holding the true nature of the man, i.e. knowing him.
(11) "Viajar" looks related to "vie" (life), but also to "vais" (a form of the verb "to go").
(12)"alrededor" looked like the extremeity of something.
(13) I spent some time on this "desde entonces". I had absolutely no idea what it meant. When I looked up the net, it looked like a linkage word. I deemed it completely unimportant thus.
(14) "trampas" looked like something bad. Considering that the man was always winning, obviously it meant that he wasn't prepared for dire things.
(15) "Mientras" = "mienne" (mine). Obviously
(16) Well, if "ti amo" is "I love you", "mi amo" ought to be "my love", inn'it?
(17) "satisfecho" is "satisfaire" in French. In love relationships, this implies a sexual satisfaction of the woman, which is why I used the word "comblée"

	02-09-2005 22:30									#234
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so spiff - whats 'comble" mean? I had no idea, and i needed a rhyme, so i put in the poetic "morrow"

	02-09-2005 22:32									#235
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa It's great reading for anybody who understands german

is that sarcasm I smell?

	02-09-2005 22:35									#236
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Ok, since noone knows russian, here's the direct translation of what I have written.

Let the hilarity ensue.

quote: (I) My spirit is a dream ( doh ) I am the courage of that man This parasite chose something To influence your yearly actions ( ) From where this isn't taking something apart without rigidity/strength ( yes boys and girls, I don't know what demenager means) Not to see something is to not understand It's moving throughout the entire world Through hills bushes and trees ( - I don't know what those nouns meant. I just made **** up ) (II) And so, from this time on, I always when I remind myself of the tricks ( yep. truc. again, no clue ) that I make today But to tell the truth, I won't be changed by my actions And I am glad of my own charm, of which I am a member of.

	02-09-2005 22:38									#237
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O...M...G...!!!!






I was very confused as I read the first line as I got the translation... how can someone dream "air"?

	02-09-2005 22:38									#238
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wait, that was Ted Hughes? Plath's husband? Isnt this

"Yes, always earning,
one is scarcely prepared for sorrow.
but the truth is mine, I regret nothing Ive done
Its enough to have been with my love on the morrow"

what he SHOULD have written?

	02-09-2005 22:43									#239
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark wait, that was Ted Hughes? Plath's husband? Isnt this "Yes, always earning, one is scarcely prepared for sorrow. but the truth is mine, I regret nothing Ive done Its enough to have been with my love on the morrow" what he SHOULD have written?

Well I honestly thought your rendering of the two poems made more sense than just about anything else.

	02-09-2005 22:43									#240
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Indeed, your poem PWNs his