02-09-2005 19:51									#181
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Oops, when I subscribed, I was in Paris, where French-Spanish dictionaries lie

I have been in Stuttgart for two days, and completely forgot to bring a Spanish-French dictionary with me. As per the rules, I cannot use online dictionaries

This is going to be cheesedly hobbitty indeed

quote: Originally posted by Karoch Good luck with the translation.

Well thank you, I'll need it

	02-09-2005 19:51									#182
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when are we going to get the results?

	02-09-2005 19:54									#183
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Very soon. I'll mobilize my brain for the translation not to be too alien, and I'll send it to LOTM. He's the last player.

	02-09-2005 20:09									#184
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Very soon. I'll mobilize my brain for the translation not to be too alien, and I'll send it to LOTM. He's the last player.

I'll try to check in over the weekend, and do it, but be patient.

	02-09-2005 20:10									#185
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Oops, when I subscribed, I was in Paris, where French-Spanish dictionaries lie I have been in Stuttgart for two days, and completely forgot to bring a Spanish-French dictionary with me. As per the rules, I cannot use online dictionaries

What?!?!?

I havent found my pocket Larouse. I cant use an online dictionary??????? Cheesy Hobbits indeed. I have some french textbooks with glossaries, but they wont help for any halfway obscure words.

	02-09-2005 20:11									#186
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark I havent found my pocket Larouse. I cant use an online dictionary??????? Cheesy Hobbits indeed. I have some french textbooks with glossaries, but they wont help for any halfway obscure words.

Really?

	02-09-2005 21:32									#187
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ah to hell with dictionaries. I think I can do this

poem 1

She is at my side,
And i value her, without a doubt.
The morning beauty has chosen me.
Since then, she has put me to work.

She chose me without hesitation,
Without even knowing me.
I am going to the ends of the earth
By the valleys, by the forest, by the dirt.

Poem 2

Yes, always earning,
one is scarcely prepared for sorrow.
but the truth is mine, I regret nothing Ive done
Its enough to have been with my love on the morrow.

	02-09-2005 21:34									#188
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Sent.

There were a few words I didn't begin to fathom. In order to have at least some idea of what they meant, without looking up online dictionaries, I simply googled random webpages containing text that had that word. It let me to guess the meaning of the word thanks to the context.

Don't worry, I'm sure I guessed wrong very often

	02-09-2005 21:35									#189
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what?

	02-09-2005 21:35									#190
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Erm...That changed shape a fair bit...

	02-09-2005 21:36									#191
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LOTM

Really great to have made a poem out of what I sent you

	02-09-2005 21:36									#192
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LOTM - wtf is this? delete it.

	02-09-2005 21:37									#193
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Wow, that's beautiful, lotm!

Only vaguely recognizable from when I had it 5-6 turns ago, but hey, that's the whole purpose of it!

Now to wait for the mysteries to hopefully be sorted out.

	02-09-2005 21:38									#194
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor LOTM Really great to have made a poem out of what I sent you

Its harder to rhyme in english than in french, I think.

	02-09-2005 21:38									#195
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I think I'm the one who mangled it beyond recognition


(and to say that I can understand pretty much one half of the government's websites in Spanish - or at least I believe so )

	02-09-2005 21:38									#196
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Az, LOTM is the last player, so that is the final edit. Leave it be.

	02-09-2005 21:40									#197
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"By the valleys, by the forest, by the dirt."

that's the only part I recognise. well except that my version was about mountains, rocks and trees

	02-09-2005 21:41									#198
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Now, Atahualpa ought to just tell us what the original poems wwere, without giving us the key to the mystery to quickly

Just the first and the last versions, to puzzle us. The intermediaries shall come later.

	02-09-2005 21:41									#199
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LOTM, that wasn't nice....
I'll have all the data up quickly, please don't post now as there are going to come a lot of postings.

	02-09-2005 21:41									#200
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf "By the valleys, by the forest, by the dirt." that's the only part I recognise. well except that my version was about mountains, rocks and trees

I would have said translated "terre" as soil, rather than dirt, but i wanted it to "rhyme" with "work"

	02-09-2005 21:42									#201
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Now, Atahualpa ought to just tell us what the original poems wwere, without giving us the key to the mystery to quickly Just the first and the last versions, to puzzle us. The intermediaries shall come later.

Don't worry, I'll have it all nicely organized, first that, then the english path, then the individual translations and finally some of the other paths (french, german, spanish)

	02-09-2005 21:42									#202
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa LOTM, that wasn't nice.... I'll have all the data up quickly, please don't post now as there are going to come a lot of postings.

oh, i thought since i was last, I could just post it. I could delete it if you want?

	02-09-2005 21:46									#203
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.

Last edited by Atahualpa on 02-09-2005 at 22:02

	02-09-2005 21:47									#204
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Index of the results, take your time reading through this. Do not skip! You can go through the whole process post by post, this index is for convenient fast access later. First I suggest to just look at the differences between the original and the final.

• Original vs Final
• Info on the poems
• The path with the english translations
• Each translation on its own:
• Bosh (-> Spanish)
• Chilean President™ (-> French)
• Cybershy (-> Dutch)
• Gangerolf (-> German)
• Wernazuma III (-> French)
• Flandrien (-> English)
• Krill (-> French)
• Az (-> Russian)
• Pave (-> Swedish)
• Winston (-> German)
• Adagio (-> Danish)
• Aivo½so (-> Finnish)
• Kassiopeia (-> English)
• Karoch (-> Spanish)
• Spiffor (-> French)
• Lord of the Mark (-> English)
• The path with the french translations
• The path with the spanish translations
• The path with the german translations

Thx for participating! I had a great laugh gathering all the results

Last edited by Atahualpa on 03-09-2005 at 18:36

	02-09-2005 21:47									#205
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In this post, I will present the original and the final one. Expect to wonder what they have in common

First the original:

quote: First Poem: A slumber did my spirit seal; I had no human fears: She seemed a thing that could not feel The touch of earthly years. No motion has she now, no force; She neither hears nor sees; Rolled round in earth's diurnal course, With rocks, and stones, and trees.

And now the final one:

quote: First Poem: She is at my side, And i value her, without a doubt. The morning beauty has chosen me. Since then, she has put me to work. She chose me without hesitation, Without even knowing me. I am going to the ends of the earth By the valleys, by the forest, by the dirt.

Same for the other poem - original:

quote: Second Poem: Oh, I admit that sometimes I find myself a bore. Especially when I tell me jokes that I have heard before. But ordinarily I find that I am quite a guy. I really like to be with me, and what's more, so do I.

and final translation:

quote: Second Poem: Yes, always earning, one is scarcely prepared for sorrow. but the truth is mine, I regret nothing Ive done Its enough to have been with my love on the morrow.

quote: originally posted by Winston I like the 2nd poem best BTW. I can sense it used to be beautiful - about eight translations ago..

	02-09-2005 21:47									#206
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I tried to find some background information on the first poem, because quite obviously it's the harder one to understand.

So, the first one is from William Wordsworth and was sponsored by molly bloom (many many thanks).
I've read some analysis on it: This one I think this sums it up:

quote: In this poem by William Wordsworth, two "statements" can be said to have been made, one in each stanza: 1 ) I thought she could not die, and 2) she is dead

Read it again and keep this in mind!!
Btw, the "She" is Lucy Gray and the poem is part of the "Lucy Poems" written around 1800 and is probably a young woman or a child that the author had some form of relationship with.

The second one is the second half of a poem I found on the net when searching for humorous poems. It's quite straight-forward, but I thought the first half was too revealing presenting the word "shizophrenic" and I had my doubts that it'd be twisted well enough... I guess it would have happened anyway
It's by Ted Lawson and the whole can be read here: http://www.witandwisdom.org/archive/20030328.htm (scroll down to THIS & THAT)

	02-09-2005 21:48									#207
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Now before we go into each and every translation, I'll just present you with all the english versions along the path. This time, maybe the changes are better to understand... we'll see

The original first poem:

quote: A slumber did my spirit seal; I had no human fears: She seemed a thing that could not feel The touch of earthly years. No motion has she now, no force; She neither hears nor sees; Rolled round in earth's diurnal course, With rocks, and stones, and trees.

The one done by Flandrien:

quote: My mind is dreaming, I do not fear the man at all that is the parasite that can choose it all, making an impression with his yearly activities. So, it cannot move without strength, It does not hear what it does not see, it moves with the movement of everything, with the mountains, the rocks and the trees. (2)

The next done by Kassiopeia:

quote: He dreams of my presence And I have given him courage The parasite made a choice And lunged at your annual venture Without trying she made a choice Chose something she can't understand She travels around the world In the caves, the forests, the earth

And the final one again by Lord of the mark:

quote: She is at my side, And i value her, without a doubt. The morning beauty has chosen me. Since then, she has put me to work. She chose me without hesitation, Without even knowing me. I am going to the ends of the earth By the valleys, by the forest, by the dirt.

Same for the second poem - Original

quote: Oh, I admit that sometimes I find myself a bore. Especially when I tell me jokes that I have heard before. But ordinarily I find that I am quite a guy. I really like to be with me, and what's more, so do I.

Flandrien:

quote: I admit I sometimes take myself for a fool, especially when I remember the jokes I pulled today. But, speaking frankly, I still feel like I am normal, and I am very pleased with my charming Self, to whom I belong.

Kassiopeia:

quote: Oh yes, and from then on I always prevailed ( ) I recall all the tricks even now Though when we learn the truth, I won't flee from what I've done I will be happy that my owner will be satisfied

Lord of the mark:

quote: Yes, always earning, one is scarcely prepared for sorrow. but the truth is mine, I regret nothing Ive done Its enough to have been with my love on the morrow.

	02-09-2005 21:48									#208
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Now for each translation...
So, Bosh did the first translation to spanish (I numbered some lines of interest):

quote: First Poem: Mi espirito selló un sueño (1) Yo no tenía ningún miedo humano Ella se parecía ser algo que no puede sentir El efecto de años mundanalos Ahora ella tiene ningun movimiento ni fuerza Ella ni oyen ni ven Se rodan por todos lados en el curso diario del mundo Con rocas, piedras y árboles (2)

quote: Second Poem: Yo admito que algunos tiempos me considero un pelmazo Especialmente cuando yo me digo los chistes que yo ya oído Pero ordinariamente, hallo que yo soy un muy bien tipo Yo tengo gusto de estar con me muchisimo, y además yo me gusto también

(1) Bosh here introduced the word "sueño" = dream, it was probably an interpretation and one that made a red line through all the translations, changing only from noun to predicate.
(2) Some linguistical subtlety has been lost by not seperating every item in the list with an "y = and". An analyst said that this was quite important to the text, but well... it's surely not to the garbage we'll have in between

	02-09-2005 21:48									#209
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Chilean President™: (-> french)

quote: First Poem: Mon esprit a estampillé un rêve Je n'avais aucune peur humaine Elle paraissait être quelque chose qui ne peut pas être senti L'effet d'années mondaines. Maintenant elle n'a aucun mouvement ni force Elle n'entend pas ni voit Ils rôdent par tous côtés dans le cours quotidien du monde Avec des roches, pierres et arbres

quote: Second Poem: J'admets qu'en quelques temps je me considère un idiot (1) Spécialement quand je me dirai les blagues que j'ai déjà écouter Mais ordinairement, je trouve que je suis un taux très bon J'aime énormément d'être avec moi même et en outre je m'aime aussi.

CP has done quite a good translation. He also introduced the idiot in (1), whereas the original just speaks of "I consider myself a bore"
As we saw already this line makes some funny twisting

	02-09-2005 21:48									#210
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Now comes an interesting translation as CyberShy's French seemed really non-fluent - a superb fubaring! CyberShy

quote: First Poem: Mijn geest is in een tijdelijke droomtoestand Ik heb niet de minste angst voor het menselijke (1) Zij is een parasiterend wezen dat alles kan kiezen (2) Indrukwekkend in haar jaarlijkse bezigheden (3) Nu zij niet enige beweging heeft zonder kracht Zij niet hoort wat ze niet ziet (4) Zij mee beweegt met de beweging van alles (5) Met de bergen, de stenen en de bomen

quote: Second Poem: Ik geef toe dat ik mezelf al een tijdje een idioot vind Vooral wanneer ik me de grappen herinner die ik vandaag heb meegemaakt Maar normaal gesproken krijg ik het idee dat ik wel normaal ben Ik ben enorm tevreden met vriendelijke ik, dat is waar ik van hou (6)

Unfortunately I don't speak dutch, but I think I could deduce most things from Gangerolf's German translation.

I think in (1) you can see how "human fear" changes to "fear for the human" and in (2) CyberShy interpreted paraissait (seemed, appeared) to "parasite" and "qui ne peut pas être senti" (that could not feel) to "who can choose everything"
(3) "The touch of earthly years" in the original changed to: "Raising impressions in her yearly occupations"
(4) "She neither hears nor sees" changed to "She does not hear what she does not see"
(5) The original said: "Rolled round in earth's diurnal course", here it means: "She moves with the movement of everything"

As for the second poem, it's translated okay, but it's beginning to sound very strange. Also in (6) the "so do I" changed to something that Gangerolf translated then as "where I belong" (I don't know the direct dutch-english translation (online translater suggests: "that is of which I hold").

From now on what can we expect further?