22-08-2005 08:09									#31
	Get a bigger avatar today!

jesus christ, what did they do? outlaw starcraft?

	22-08-2005 08:13									#32
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

funny how right wingers say they're all about freedom and war to spread freedom... but when left leaning people decide to fight for rights, they're "criminals" and should be "shot" if they throw molotov cocktails...

fight the system

I only wish one day in America the people have the balls to take back their country from the scum infesting the government.

	22-08-2005 08:22									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

It has nothing to do with them being "criminals" or not. It has to do with me not wanting to be set on fire and my willingness to cap any ******* that tries it...

	22-08-2005 08:24									#34
	Full PM-box? Change here!

no it's because you are on the wrong side of freedom, justice, and social progress

	22-08-2005 08:59									#35
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I don't have a problem with cops shooting people who are winging molotovs at them. Even the biggest scumbag in the world has the right to try and defend themslves.

	22-08-2005 09:29									#36
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Sava jesus christ, what did they do? outlaw starcraft?

Btw, just for Sava, I hope the labor protesters get pounded all the way into 2205.

	22-08-2005 12:56									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I dunno if they are protesting against low wages, but:

Share of Wages/Salaries/Employee compensation in GDP:

South Korea: 62%
United States: 49%
Euro Zone: 48%


Although I suppose they could have been protesting about this:

Annual average hours worked:

South Korea: 2,392
United States: 1,819
Euro Zone: 1,551

	22-08-2005 13:04									#38
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Share of Wages/Salaries/Employee compensation in GDP: South Korea: 62%

That's a fricking awesome stat. Say, you know the figures for Israel? I've always wondered.

quote: South Korea: 2,392

46 hours a weeks? sounds about right for Israel, too. :/ again, do you have the stats for Israel? ( curiosity)

Drafting police sux. But they do it here, also.

	22-08-2005 13:04									#39
	Remove this text

quote: Although I suppose they could have been protesting about this: Annual average hours worked: South Korea: 2,392 United States: 1,819 Euro Zone: 1,551

It's largely the second bit and the standard "close down the factory and ship all the jobs to China" stuff, manufacturing jobs in Korea are quite well paying relative to GDP.

	22-08-2005 13:14									#40
	Increase Your PM Length

Yeah we need more socially responsible capitalism, not so much the max-shareholder-value-at-any-cost one. Its good workers protests against unsustainable profit maximisation and hold on to their jobs. You cant just toss people around and move production where the labour costs are the lowest...

	22-08-2005 13:16									#41
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Az That's a fricking awesome stat. Say, you know the figures for Israel? I've always wondered.

Yes it is isn't it?
Actually South Korea has by far the highest share of wages in GDP (the next highest being my native Britian and also Japan, both at 55% - the lowest being Norway with 33%)


Unfortunately the data is from the OECD of which Israel is not a member.

If you can find an english version of the Israeli national accounts (I looked at http://www.cbs.gov.il/ but can't find an english version) then I can tell you the wage share in GDP (assuming it's done using SIC1993)

I can't seem to find data on the average hours worked.

	22-08-2005 14:19									#42
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

They seem to have a different way of riot policing than Europe. In Europe there'd be far more evidence for water cannons, as well as mounted charges on armored horseback. Guess it's what runs in the culture

I know that even in England that guy with the flamethrower in the bongine wmv would have had a good chance of being shot down.

	22-08-2005 14:36									#43
	Full PM-box? Change here!

el freako: It's rather hard to assess, because there are about 200k workers which aren't Israeli citizens ( palestinians and other foreign workers) If we count for all workforce, both Israeli and foreign, it should be just as fair:

Here are workforce and wage stats:
http://www.cbs.gov.il/y_labor/e1_01.pdf

And I think this is the core data we're looking for ( I'll appreciate it very much if you decipher it. )

http://www.cbs.gov.il/y_labor/e1_01.pdf

2548.2

	22-08-2005 14:43									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

your second link links to the same document as the first...

	22-08-2005 14:47									#45
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It's not me, it's them! They don't want you to know the truth!

Seriously, that's bizzare. This is the right link.

http://www1.cbs.gov.il/shnaton55/st14_07.pdf

	22-08-2005 14:49									#46
	Got spare money?

rioting against police


if they complain about working conditions why don´t they join their happy brothers in North Korea, socialist paradise

	22-08-2005 14:50									#47
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Or go to cuba!!!!!!

	22-08-2005 14:55									#48
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

communism

	22-08-2005 15:07									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

As far as I can decifer the data behind the links you posted on document #1 there is no information about average hours worked. Merely the number of employee posts, amount of total wages paid and wages paid per employee post at current and constant prices. In document #2 there is list of how the various variables have changed annually. It does give us some numbers we can use however. Compensation of employees totals for 62.4 % of income of the business sector.

	22-08-2005 15:17									#50
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Laurentius: My main interest isn't hours worked but wage as part of GDP. It's much more important.

	22-08-2005 15:31									#51
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Alright. Then the problem with the data you provided is that its indicators are about the business sector only, not the whole GDP. I tried to look up for the information on web (The World Bank, IMF etc.) but somehow was unable to locate usefull data. Got ot go get my bike fixed now, laters. El Freako will probably find you the numbers in no time dont worry.

Last edited by laurentius on 22-08-2005 at 15:38

	22-08-2005 19:43									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by laurentius Yeah we need more socially responsible capitalism,

That's a contradiction in terms.

	22-08-2005 19:46									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by el freako I dunno if they are protesting against low wages, but: Share of Wages/Salaries/Employee compensation in GDP: South Korea: 62% United States: 49% Euro Zone: 48% Although I suppose they could have been protesting about this: Annual average hours worked: South Korea: 2,392 United States: 1,819 Euro Zone: 1,551

SK labor combativeness would be the cause, rather than the result of those numbers. Workers who actually fight for their rights are far more likely to get them than workers who try to negotiate at all costs.

	22-08-2005 20:24									#54
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara That's a contradiction in terms.

Kinda like "democratic socialism"?

	22-08-2005 20:29									#55
	Tired of ads?

No, that's an example of redundant repetition - because it ain't socialism if it's not democratic

	22-08-2005 20:29									#56
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Those pics remind me of the protests in '88.

I must say thought that the police is pretty retrained. Even in little old Panama the cops would be flooding the area with Tear gas and shooting up a storm with the rubber bullets.

Ah, the good ol' days.....

	22-08-2005 20:31									#57
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: jesus christ, what did they do? outlaw starcraft?

Btw, post of the thread.

	22-08-2005 23:23									#58
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by lightblue They seem to have a different way of riot policing than Europe. In Europe there'd be far more evidence for water cannons, as well as mounted charges on armored horseback. Guess it's what runs in the culture I know that even in England that guy with the flamethrower in the bongine wmv would have had a good chance of being shot down.

I was suprised I did not see more water cannon there. For dispersing a crowd it can be quite effective. Anyone that has been hit by a standard 2 and1/2 inch hose at even 100 psi knows that it can knock you off your feet

In winter it would be doubly effective since everyone gets wet and cold-- although the indirect spray is quite welcome on hot days

	23-08-2005 02:27									#59
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by laurentius Alright. Then the problem with the data you provided is that its indicators are about the business sector only, not the whole GDP.

Heh, you'll all laugh at me but I made the same mistake

The percentages I quoted (which were from the OECD's Economic Outlook no.77) where 'wage shares in the business sector' so Israel's figure is, like South Korea's, very high compared to most other nations.

I did look at the National Accounts for OECD members in 2003 and managed to get the income data for compensation of employees as a percentage of GDP and the numbers were quite different for most countries; for example South Korea's figure is much lower under this measure (41%), and the US's is much higher (58%, although in the US's case the inclusion of benefits such as healthcare provision in 'employee compensation' probably has something to do with it)
I am not entirely sure why there is such a discrepancy with so many countries but will look into it when I have the time (I've been really busy today helping fit the mast to a friend's Catamaran)

	23-08-2005 03:05									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Ok, just watched some of the videos and saw the pics. I have not read the thread. Here is my initial reaction.

I see massive numbers of people taking up arms and resisting against official government actions. This is a revolt, and the participants should consider themselves lucky that a higher level of force was not used to regain control of the situation. I do not claim to know what the protests were about and I am not familer with Korean politics, so the only perspective I have is if something like this were to happen in the US. And yes, by the definition of deadly force that I was instructed by, it could have been used.

Once again, this is only from the observable activities and not the causes.

Now, if I have time, I will try to read the thread. Give me a moment.