31-08-2005 08:03									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger US cities seem to have been designed with private transportation instead of public transportation in mind; the cities are all sprawled out with low population density. This also increases the time and energy required to go from one place to another.

And that's why we need to take the lead on gasoline dependency. It's a non-issue in London, Paris, and Tokyo; it's a huge issue in Chicago, Houston, and LA.

	31-08-2005 11:38									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander But there are plenty of wealthy technologically advanced people who aren't Americans and who pay at least twice as much as we do for gasoline who haven't yet discovered a magical means for replacing petroleum.

That's 'cause they're pouring all the funds into supporting social obligations like universal health care and whatnot.

Seriously, though, those are good points. Yet do R&D budgets in places like Europe and Japan come close to what the U.S. is capable of, should we ever get out butts in gear? I wouldn't be surprised if, right now, they do have more funds set aside for such research than we do ... but that would be only because we're not motivated.

quote: Some proven technologies just can't compete with petroleum on a cost basis even with a fair bit of competitive advantage due to taxes and supply difficulties. Other technologies seem to be waiting for a tech breakthrough or two before they can be realized even in demonstration modes.

Ethanol and biodiesel fall into the former category. Wind power, too, I imagine. There have been some neat advances in solar power (paint!) that could very well make that more viable than ever before. Hybrid vehicles are also advancing, as are electric models.

quote: This tells me that while there may be a lucky breakthrough that changes the way we produce energy, it is unlikely that this will happen soon. A lot of people have been looking into this for decades and there doesn't appear to be an easy solution around the corner.

I figure that even with a Manhattan Project-type effort, it'd still take several decades after any breakthrough for the new technology to be fully integrated into our society.

quote: Which is too bad of course. I'd like to see some more taxes on petroleum in order to promote conservation and increase the potential payoff for anyone doing reasearch in the area, but I'm doubtful that this will itself produce a scientific breakthrough which could justify a Manhattan project style demonstration anytime soon.

Hope springs eternal.

Gatekeeper

	31-08-2005 11:40									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger US cities seem to have been designed with private transportation instead of public transportation in mind; the cities are all sprawled out with low population density. This also increases the time and energy required to go from one place to another.

They weren't always that way. Unfortunately, most of the mass transit systems (i.e. light rail) were bought up by automobile makers in the 1920s and 1930s and scrapped pretty much by the 1940s.

Gatekeeper

	31-08-2005 11:50									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper They weren't always that way. Unfortunately, most of the mass transit systems (i.e. light rail) were bought up by automobile makers in the 1920s and 1930s and scrapped pretty much by the 1940s.

Unfortunate indeed, for now it will be a Herculean effeort to shift back the other way, involving a whole raft of problems.