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techumseh is offline techumseh
King
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 26-08-2005 11:29 Visit techumseh's homepage!
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....dollar. Imagine the gall (and the potential impact) of selling oil for something other than US dollars. From the Asia Times:



quote:

Killing the dollar in Iran
By Toni Straka
Aug 26, 2005

Speaking Freely is an Asia Times Online feature that allows guest writers to have their say. Please click here if you are interested in contributing.

Could the proposed Iranian oil bourse (IOB) become the catalyst for a significant blow to the influential position the US dollar enjoys? Manifold supply fears have driven the price of crude oil to its recent high of US$67.10 - only a notch below its highest price in inflation-adjusted dollar terms. With the world facing a daily bill of roughly $5.5 billion for crude oil at current price levels, it becomes apparent that sellers and purchasers of the black gold are looking into all ways that could lead to a financial improvement on their respective sides.

Non-US-dollar holders so far have been the victim of additional transaction costs in the oil trade. The necessary conversion of local currencies into oil-buying greenbacks can be considered a hidden tax, charged and enjoyed by the international banking sector. The IOB, by eliminating this transaction cost, will become



a factor that could unsettle the dollar's dominant position. While the worldwide bottleneck of inadequate refining facilities and partly dramatic declines in production - for example in the North Sea - are two factors that cannot be eliminated in the short term, there is one area left which could result in smiling faces of oil producers as well as most buyers.

Oil consumers are entangled in a web of supply fears that span the globe. In Venezuela, President Hugo Chavez threatens to divert oil supplies from the US to China, which faces severe gasoline and diesel shortages these days. Attacks on Iraqi oil installations have slowed exports there. Ecuador's oil industry is still recovering from a strike, while Nigerian oil companies are in the middle of efforts to avoid a strike there.

Until now, oil has been solely priced, traded and paid for in the greenback on markets in both London and New York. But monthly worldwide oil revenues of over $110 billion (on a 20-trading-day basis) - a third of which ends up with OPEC (Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries) members - raise the question of what happens to these cash mountains. According to the most recent data from the US Treasury Department, OPEC members have parked only a skimpy $120 billion in direct dollar holdings, which are almost equally split between equities and American debt paper. This is a clear indication that oil producers are investing their windfalls elsewhere. The yield spread between US and EU debt papers in favor of the EU is another hint where the petrodollars might be heading.

Especially in the case of Iran, it does not make sense to accept dollars only for its much-desired commodity. Given that Iran is seen as a hostile country by the current US administration for its intention to build its own nuclear reactors, one wonders whether the new IOB will not try to attract buyers other than Americans. Iran has recently announced that the new oil exchange will start up its computers in March 2006.

The proposal to set up a petroleum bourse was first voiced in Iran's development plan for 2000-2005. Last July, Heydar Mostakhdemin-Hosseini, who heads the board of directors of the Iranian Stock Exchange council, said authorities had agreed in principle to the establishment of the IOB, where petrochemicals, crude oil and oil and gas products will be traded. The oil exchange would strive to make Iran the main hub for oil deals in the region and most deals will be conducted via the Internet. Experts from London's International Petroleum Exchange (IPE) and the New York Mercantile Exchange (NYMEX) have reportedly confirmed the feasibility of the project.

The IOB can count on two sharp arrows in its holster. It can - and probably will - lure European buyers with oil prices quoted in euros, saving them dollar transaction costs. And it can strike barter deals with oil-hungry giants like China and India who have a lot of products and commodities to offer. One doubts whether American hamburgers and legal services will be considered adequate collateral for the world's most after-sought resource.

Worse than an Iranian nuclear attack?
Weaned off the almighty commodity, the US dollar can have a deeper impact on the US economy than a direct nuclear attack by Iran. The permanent demand for dollar-denominated paper stems substantially from the fact that until now almost all resources of the world are quoted in it. While this led to the eurodollar (US dollar-denominated deposits at foreign banks or foreign branches of American banks) market in the 1970s, the new terms of trade could ring in the demise of the dollar as the premier reserve currency.

With the world economy depending so much on oil, the black gold itself can be seen as a reserve currency that will be handed out against only the best collateral in the future. Last month, the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco published a paper about the progress of the diversification of central banks' reserves around the world. It concluded that the dollar's position is on the decline in many countries. China, the new industrial giant, has officially declared that it will diversify a part of its forex holdings into oil by building a strategic petroleum reserve. Construction of storage tanks has begun this year and will take several years until completion. China has not yet said how many barrels of oil it wants to store. The implications for the oil market can only be guessed as China wants to use its future reserves to smooth out spikes in oil price.

Iran holds a strong hand as the No 2 producer of crude behind Saudi Arabia, pumping 5% of the world's oil demand. Politicians there will also keep in mind that dollar deposits might become a burden in the future, if the US steps up its current war of words to the level of economic sanctions in the attempt to halt construction of Iran's nuclear power plants. Money in the bank does not help when you have no access to it. Substituting Iran's domestic oil demand partly with nuclear power will place the country in a win-win situation. Cheaper nuclear energy and increases in oil exports from the current level of roughly 2.5 million barrels a day will result in a profitable equation for Iran.

Only one major actor stands to lose from a change in the current status quo: the US, which with less than 5% of the global population, consumes roughly one third of global oil production. Oil in euros would benefit millions more in the EU and its trading partners, though. And it would loosen the grip the US has on OPEC members. Thinking of the rapid growth of hostilities between the US and Arab nations in recent years, a renunciation of the dollar appears to be more than just an Arab daydream.

As this development poses a very real danger to the superior status of the greenback and the interests of the US, the "president of war" can be expected to take a strong line against the winds blowing from the Middle East. One may be reminded that Saddam Hussein had entered into discreet talks with the EU, proposing to sell his oil for euros. That was in the year before the first oil war of this century.

The IOB could help the euro to become the interim primary reserve currency before China and India rise to the first two slots in the global economic ranking in the next few decades. A decline of the dollar's position in oil trading might also open the floodgates in other commodity markets where the dollar is the medium of exchange but where the US has only a minority market share. A global economy driven by tough efficiency demands in the light of thin profit margins almost everywhere is a good primer for accounting changes in other commodity markets as well. This process could begin in resources like steel and energy and spread to all other resources that are marketed globally. The world outside the US has a lot to gain from it.

Toni Straka is a Vienna, Austria-based independent financial analyst and portfolio manager, who worked as a financial journalist for over 15 years and now evaluates global market trends. He runs a blog, The Prudent Investor, where this piece first appeared.

Gatekeeper is offline Gatekeeper
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  Old Post 26-08-2005 11:38 Visit Gatekeeper's homepage!
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**shrug** FWIW, I've *always* been in favor of a Manhattan Project approach to finding, developing and mass producing a new energy source, damn the taxes or cost. If we'd done this in the 1970s, we might not be in such a mess as we are today.

Gatekeeper

Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 26-08-2005 11:41
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No oil for dollars

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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May 1999
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  Old Post 26-08-2005 13:42
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cold fusion?

Tattila the Hun is offline Tattila the Hun
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  Old Post 26-08-2005 15:47
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Hot fusion, I fear.

Sikander is offline Sikander
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Jan 2000
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  Old Post 26-08-2005 16:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Gatekeeper
**shrug** FWIW, I've *always* been in favor of a Manhattan Project approach to finding, developing and mass producing a new energy source, damn the taxes or cost. If we'd done this in the 1970s, we might not be in such a mess as we are today.

Gatekeeper


I don't think there was even a theoretic basis for doing so in the 1970s which was nearly as promising as nuclear fission/ manhattan project. Is there one today? There is certainly an immense amount of upside potential economically to develop more and better sources of energy. Most of the advanced countries tax the sh!t out of their petroleum in order to further reduce consumption and spur innovation. A lot of improvements have been made in conservation and the efficiency with which we use and produce our (old) energy sources, but so far few new sources of energy have much of an impact.

IMO this process will be more akin to the industrial revolution than the manhattan project, ie it will be a large number of smaller advances strung together that will make the crucial difference rather than a silver bullet. Improving efficiencies in energy storage and transmission for instance would have a huge impact.

VJ is offline VJ
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Dec 2001
time: 07:37
  Old Post 26-08-2005 17:06
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Sava is offline Sava
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  Old Post 26-08-2005 18:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Gatekeeper
**shrug** FWIW, I've *always* been in favor of a Manhattan Project approach to finding, developing and mass producing a new energy source, damn the taxes or cost. If we'd done this in the 1970s, we might not be in such a mess as we are today.

Gatekeeper
well of course...

just about every average person would support this

the problem is

rich powerful people who make tons of money off of oil would lose money if this happened

and they have much more influence than us average people

and I don't think we're going to make progress by putting an oil man in the white house

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 26-08-2005 19:22
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This could be a vicious move on Iran's part and the US can do nothing about it.

Theben is offline Theben
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 26-08-2005 19:23
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Sava sums it up right here:

quote:
I don't think we're going to make progress by putting an oil man in the white house

Gatekeeper is offline Gatekeeper
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  Old Post 27-08-2005 03:54 Visit Gatekeeper's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Sikander
I don't think there was even a theoretic basis for doing so in the 1970s which was nearly as promising as nuclear fission/ manhattan project. Is there one today? There is certainly an immense amount of upside potential economically to develop more and better sources of energy. Most of the advanced countries tax the sh!t out of their petroleum in order to further reduce consumption and spur innovation. A lot of improvements have been made in conservation and the efficiency with which we use and produce our (old) energy sources, but so far few new sources of energy have much of an impact.


Taxes and Americans generally don't mix, unless there's some obvious threat breathing down our necks. Dependence on oil doesn't count because most folks cannot — or refuse to — take the long-term view and see what awaits us just over the horizon.

quote:
IMO this process will be more akin to the industrial revolution than the manhattan project, ie it will be a large number of smaller advances strung together that will make the crucial difference rather than a silver bullet. Improving efficiencies in energy storage and transmission for instance would have a huge impact.


All the projections I've seen indicate a continued reliance on petroleum, although use of alternative energy sources also creeps upward. But, y'see, that's the key word phrase: creeps upward. While use of alternative energy sources creeps upward, the reliance on oil will rise even faster.

Your idea of an industrial revolution-type approach to diversifying energy resources is relevant, though, because even a "silver bullet" Manhattan Project type breakthrough would still take years, if not decades, to implement across the nation and the rest of the world.

Gatekeeper

pchang is offline pchang
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Aug 1999
time: 05:37
  Old Post 27-08-2005 05:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
This could be a vicious move on Iran's part and the US can do nothing about it.


Oil and currencies are global commodities. Iran won't achieve anything except to get slightly less than the market price for their oil.

Geronimo is offline Geronimo
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st cloud USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:37
  Old Post 27-08-2005 05:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
This could be a vicious move on Iran's part and the US can do nothing about it.


It's not an attack. Even if the Euro had completely supplanted the Dollar as the defacto default currency Iran would still have an incentive to do this. This is simple self interest on Irans part.

Joseph is offline Joseph
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Feb 2000
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  Old Post 27-08-2005 07:27
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Guys

What would have happen, if the US did not buy a drop of Oil for a month from all of these little Oil kindom?

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 27-08-2005 07:32
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quote:
Originally posted by pchang
Oil and currencies are global commodities. Iran won't The US wouldn't achieve anything except to get pay slightly less more than the market price for their oil.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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  Old Post 27-08-2005 11:24
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If Euro replaces the USD as the standard global currency, nasty things can happen to the US, esp. with its ability to live on borrowed $.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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  Old Post 27-08-2005 11:31 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by pchang


Oil and currencies are global commodities. Iran won't achieve anything except to get slightly less than the market price for their oil.


Why? It'll get preferential buys from the EU if it denominates in euros, which means (given the likely preponderance of euro versus US imports from Iran) that they'd actually get a slightly better price than they were getting before...

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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quote:
Originally posted by Joseph
Guys

What would have happen, if the US did not buy a drop of Oil for a month from all of these little Oil kindom?


The US would have to buy its oil from elsewhere, forcing other countries to buy from "these little Oil kindoms"

i.e. nothing

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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If the US simply reduced its consumption of oil by the amount it buys from ME oil sources then oil would simply get much cheaper

And the US economy would go into recession

And the President's head would be stuck on a pike outside the white house by an angry mob demanding gas to feed their SUVs

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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We're already headed for another recession I think

Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
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  Old Post 27-08-2005 12:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Joseph
Guys

What would have happen, if the US did not buy a drop of Oil for a month from all of these little Oil kindom?


A lot of SUV owners would be stranded

EDIT: Damn Cannucks, don't be so fast!

Mr. President is offline Mr. President
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The leaves that are green turn to brown
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  Old Post 27-08-2005 12:29 Visit Mr. President's homepage!
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More than 40% of America's oil consumption is produced in America. Another 22% comes from Canada and Mexico.

Just another Asian writer waffling on the imminent doom of the U.S. without feeling the need to resort to facts or knowledge.

Once the hydrogen economy is economical those oil producing countries are going to feel really stupid. And so, coincidentally, is everybody who lives in this forum.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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That's nice, so why are energy costs skyrocketing?

Hydrogen isn't even available for another 10 years.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr. President
More than 40% of America's oil consumption is produced in America. Another 22% comes from Canada and Mexico.

Just another Asian writer waffling on the imminent doom of the U.S. without feeling the need to resort to facts or knowledge.


That's nice. That means the 40% of the US oil supply is dependent on foreign imports.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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  Old Post 27-08-2005 14:03 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Oil is fungible, and there are a variety of sources.

There's more than enough non-ME oil to feed the US

This is a minor issue. Might cause some slight inconvenience to those traders in the US who buy Iranian oil (which represents a very small portion of the US' total supply)

ME oil is bought predominantly by EU and Asia

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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I think Japan gets almost all their oil from the Middle East

Our Canadian friends will open up the pipe full throttle

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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  Old Post 27-08-2005 14:06 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Put an end to popups!

We're already running full capacity and adding extra capacity as quickly as possible.

You'd be surprised at the things we can do when you pay us 65$ a barrel

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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  Old Post 27-08-2005 14:09 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Your dependence on Canadian oil is going to continue to grow.

If oil stays relatively high for a very long time (which I think it will) a lot of new capacity will be added up North. We actually have probably the most room for growth (excepting possibly SA); it's just that the oil's not cheap to extract. 65$ a barrel makes a lot of stuff economical which otherwise wouldn't be...

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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I think that these high oil prices are permanent.

DanS believes they are temporary but this has been going on since 2001.

I think it's a permanent structural change.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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  Old Post 27-08-2005 14:13 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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I think that the recent runup isn't permanent. But I do think there's a long-term trend toward high prices.

40-45$ a barrel is here to stay, excepting global economic slowdowns

 
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