27-08-2005 02:19									#1
	america vs rest of world 1920-1939 literary rumble Put an end to popups!

Perhaps this is aggressive, but i think it will be interesting.

to be American, must live in the US and write in English. Everyone else is "rest of world"

The period is too short for careers not to overlap. Therefore every writer who wrote a single major work in the period 1920-1939 counts. Though the more works they wrote in the period, the more it counts.

Again, lets keep it to fiction, poetry, drama (NOT musicals or operas). Essays only if their known primarily for style (thus Mencken is ok, but Freud is not)

	27-08-2005 03:07									#2
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stupid threads

	27-08-2005 03:08									#3
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I claim P.G. Wodehouse for the ROTW please, even if he did live in the USA in some of that timeframe. The man was British, even if he did take US citizenship in 1954.

	27-08-2005 04:17									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Sava stupid threads

	27-08-2005 04:21									#5
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That guy who wrote "The Hobbit".

	27-08-2005 08:41									#6
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Tropic of Cancer, Henry Miller, 1934. The first part of the book, the words just about leap off of the page, after that, it fizzles a bit. But it is still a classic, just on the strength of the early portion of the book alone.

"I have no money, no resources, no hopes. I am the happiest man alive. A year ago, six months ago, I thought I was an artist. I no longer think about it, I am. Everything that was literature has fallen from me. There are no more books to be written, thank God.

This then? This is not a book. This is libel, slander, defamation of character. This is not a book, in the ordinary sense of the word. No, this is a prolonged insult, a gob of spit in the face of Art, a kick in the pants to God, Man, Destiny, Time, Love, Beauty ... what you will. I am going to sing for you, a little off key perhaps, but I will sing. I will sing while you croak, I will dance over your dirty corpse...."

later

"They were eating a young chicken with wild rice. Pretended that I had eaten already, but I could have torn the chicken from the baby's hands. This is not just false modesty -- it's a kind of perversion, I'm thinking. Twice they asked me if I wouldn't join them. No! No! Wouldn't even accept a cup of coffee after the meal. I'm delicat, I am! On the way out I cast a lingering glance at the bones lying on the baby's plate -- there was still meat on them."

	27-08-2005 10:37									#7
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F Scott Fitzgerald

The US had him, the rest of the world didn't

The rest of the world therefore wins.

	27-08-2005 15:26									#8
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James Joyce: Ulysses publ. 1922, Finnegans Wake 1939.

Marcel Proust: 1920: Le cote de Guermantes (The Guermantes Way) and in 1922 Sodome et Gomorrhe (Cities of the Plain or Sodom and Gomorrah).

Anna Akhmatova: Podorozhnik (1921; "Plantain"), and Anno Domini MCMXXI (1922).

George Orwell: Down and Out in Paris and London (1933), The Road to Wigan Pier (1937), and Homage to Catalonia (1938).

William Butler Yeats: Four Plays for Dancers (1921), The Tower (1928)

Federico Garcia Lorca: Bodas de sangre (Madrid, 1935; Blood Wedding), Yerma (Buenos Aires, 1937), Poema del Cante Jondo (Madrid, 1931), and Llanto por Ignacio Sanchez Mejias (Madrid, 1935; tr. A. L. Lloyd, in Lament for the Death of a Bullfighter, and Other Poems, London, 1937)

Osip Mandelstam: Tristia (1922), The Noise of Time (1925) and a collection of essays, The Egyptian Stamp (1928).


Franz Kafka: A Hunger Artist (1924; Eng. trans., 1938),
The Trial (1925; Eng. trans., 1937) The Castle (1926; Eng. trans., 1930) and Amerika (1927; Eng. trans., 1938).

C. P. Cavafy: Piimata, or Poems of C. P. Cavafy in Alexandria, 1935.

Virginia Woolf: Jacob's Room (1922), To The Lighthouse (1927) and The Waves (1931). Mrs. Dalloway (1925), A Room Of One's Own (1929), Three Guineas (1938) Orlando (1928).

D. H. Lawrence: Women In Love, 1920

Sartre: La Nausee 1938

Marguerite Yourcenar: Alexis ou le Trait?du Vain Combat (1929), A Coin In Nine Hands, 1934, Oriental Tales 1938, Le Coup de Grace (1939)

Isaac Babel: Red Cavalry 1926, Odessa Tales 1927

Borges: Inquisiciones, 1925 and Historia universal de la infamia, 1935

Last edited by molly bloom on 27-08-2005 at 15:36

	27-08-2005 15:41									#9
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom ...

Game, set and match methinks...

	27-08-2005 16:14									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Hueij Game, set and match methinks...

Well, when you begin with the likes of Joyce and Proust, you know the heavy hitters are definitely on your side.

	27-08-2005 16:18									#11
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The only American writer I can come up with for that time-frame is Dashiell Hammett

	27-08-2005 16:35									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Hueij The only American writer I can come up with for that time-frame is Dashiell Hammett

There's Gertrude Stein and Faulkner and Hemingway springs to mind, unfortunately.

And Langston Hughes and the other writers of the Harlem Renaissance.


Our side: Mayakovsky and Louis Aragon, Thomas Mann and Samuel Beckett, Dylan Thomas and Siegfried Sassoon, W. H. Auden and Graham Greene, Robert Graves and Sean O'Casey, Robert Musil and Henry Green and Evelyn Waugh, Mikhail Bulgakov, Noel Coward and Elizabeth Bowen...

	27-08-2005 21:11									#13
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Bulgakov

	27-08-2005 21:50									#14
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How about Steinbeck and Hemingway on the US side?

	28-08-2005 09:24									#15
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Tennessee Williams

Flannery O'conner

O'henry

Ring lardner

HL Mencken

Thomas Wolfe

James Agee (who published some poetry in the 30's - though Let Us Now Praise Famous Men was published in 1941, despites its 30s themes. The 1939 cutoff keeps out Eudora Welty and several other southern writers)

Last edited by lord of the mark on 28-08-2005 at 09:33

	28-08-2005 09:27									#16
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U S A! U S A! U S A!


..er, wait, we're talking about literature? Damn it.

*throws down giant foam finger*

I'm going home.

I shoulda known better when the beer man was selling tea....

	28-08-2005 09:43									#17
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom And Langston Hughes and the other writers of the Harlem Renaissance.

Notably Zora Neale Hurston

Also active in this period is Richard Wright, though Native Son isnt published till 1940.

	28-08-2005 09:44									#18
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Sinclair Lewis

John Dos Passos

Willa Cather

Nathaniel West

Raymond Chandler

Henry Roth

Eugene O'Neil

Edith Wharton (Age of Innocence is published in 1920)

Robert Frost

EE Cummings

Last edited by lord of the mark on 28-08-2005 at 10:00

	28-08-2005 10:01									#19
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which side gets Ezra Pound and TS Elliot?

	28-08-2005 10:05									#20
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Allan Tate and Robert Penn Warren, though Warrens major works were after WW2

	28-08-2005 10:07									#21
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Does Upton Sinclair count? I think he was barely too early, although he was still in the spotlight in the 1920s and 30s although for politics instead of literature

	28-08-2005 11:39									#22
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Sinclair Lewis -- Main Street, Babbitt, and Arrowsmith

Point for the Americans.

	28-08-2005 19:53									#23
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Did Carl Sandberg write anything during that period?

	28-08-2005 20:17									#24
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse F Scott Fitzgerald The US had him, the rest of the world didn't The rest of the world therefore wins.

	29-08-2005 11:00									#25
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Shameful that only one person has mentioned Steinbeck. He is IMHO one of the finest writers of the 20th century when he's good (Cannery Row, In Dubious Battle).

	29-08-2005 11:01									#26
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Indeed.

Steinbeck and Hemingway are the two brightest US lights from the period...

	29-08-2005 17:07									#27
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Next up the U.S. vs the rest of the world in cricket!

	29-08-2005 17:14									#28
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Pass.

	29-08-2005 18:05									#29
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lets add James Thurber and Ogden Nash

	29-08-2005 19:30									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Did Carl Sandberg write anything during that period?

Yes.


I think if Pound and Elliot are counted as Americans (and what else would we count Pound as? - Italian?) one could make a good case for America winning.

If we put Elliot on the other side, I suppose one could give the rest of the world the win - but certainly rest of the world doesnt "own" which is kind of extraordinary, seeing as this is BEFORE the period of post-1945 US cultural dominance.