27-08-2005 13:47									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Is this lady still blaming her son's death on the Jooos?

Lame troll.

Her comment about Isreal was that it remove itself from Palestinian territories, nothing more insidious than what Bush himself has publically suggested back when it was fashionable for Bush to seem like he cared. It's astonishing (no, not really) that her simple comment was twisted by the rightwing echo chamber into her being an anti-Semite.

	27-08-2005 13:48									#32
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quote: Originally posted by shawnmmcc Dis - I used to subscribe to that idea (stay the course). Now I am not so sure. If we stay in Iraq, we end up with - a semi-democratic theocracy that is friendly to Iran. If we leave Iraq soon, we end up with a vicious Civil War, and - a theocracy that is in bed with Iraq. I am not so sure the difference is worth it.

what's so bad about a theocracy friendly to iran?

At least thousands of people wouldn't die in a civil war.

It does look like this goverment will use the laws and rules of Islam. I knew it was unrealistic to believe we could create another Turkey. But I think they could turn out to be a decent nation. Better than Iran or Saudi Arabia (yeah that's not saying much )

	27-08-2005 13:50									#33
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Well, whatever happens in the next 10 years, between Saudi and Iran, I think it will be unexpected and something homegrown.

I think the Iranian old guard are living on borrowed time, but there will be no big revolution, things will thaw out the same way they have in China and Vietnam.

	27-08-2005 13:52									#34
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quote: Originally posted by DRoseDARs Lame troll. Her comment about Isreal was that it remove itself from Palestinian territories, nothing more insidious than what Bush himself has publically suggested back when it was fashionable for Bush to seem like he cared. It's astonishing (no, not really) that her simple comment was twisted by the rightwing echo chamber into her being an anti-Semite.

No, her comment was that American soldiers were dying at the behest of Joooish neo-cons who ordered the war to protect Israeli interests. Has she backed off from that type of rhetoric? If she hasn't, then I honestly don't give a **** what she thinks.

	27-08-2005 14:59									#35
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quote: Her comment about Isreal was that it remove itself from Palestinian territories

Man, why are we always dragged into these discussions?

I am ****ing sick and tired. Think your government ****ed up? woopeedo. Vote them away, torch yourselves on the streets, I don't give a flying toss. What the **** do you want from us? This whole "shifting blame on Israel because we couldn't use our frontal lobes during the US elections" gets really tiring. Everything you do is YOUR government's choice, and YOUR government is YOUR responsibility, so shut the **** up. Just like Iraq is your ****ing responsibility - but hey, you want to get the hell out of dodge, too, it seems. Stop shifting the **** away from you. You did it, you handle it. Now, I am all in favor of helping you - Because I think there is an important humanitarian aspect of this. However, this doesn't mean that you should just leave these people because you feel you weren't using your brain first.

	27-08-2005 16:01									#36
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quote: No, her comment was that American soldiers were dying at the behest of Joooish neo-cons who ordered the war to protect Israeli interests. Has she backed off from that type of rhetoric? If she hasn't, then I honestly don't give a **** what she thinks.

I've seen just about every quote Fox can throw at her and never saw that. What was the actual quote?

	27-08-2005 16:36									#37
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Same old ****, just the newest regurgitation.

	27-08-2005 16:39									#38
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Sheehan is a greiving mother who has lost her grasp on reality. These people have existed in every war, and you are only cheering her on because her greif induced fanaticism is in line with your political though. You are using this poor woman.

I feel for he emotionally, losing a loved one is not easy. But believing her protest is motivated by anything but a jealous hatred of the military and Iraq war which stole her son (and if it was WWII she would be doing the same thing), which by all accounts her son loved and believed in, is basically falling for into the same trap you accuse Bush of. Making rash emotional decisions not thought through.

And what I definetly don't like is how she parades around to represent the soldiers and military families, who for the most part dispise her for warping her sons beliefs for he personal goals. The vast majority of the military and their families, like 80%, are not on her side on this.

	27-08-2005 16:45									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker I've seen just about every quote Fox can throw at her and never saw that. What was the actual quote?

From a statement she sent to Nightline...

quote: Am I emotional? Yes, my first born was murdered. Am I angry? Yes, he was killed for lies and for a PNAC Neo-Con agenda to benefit Israel. My son joined the army to protect America, not Israel. Am I stupid? No, I know full well that my son, my family, this nation and this world were betrayed by George Bush who was influenced by the neo-con PNAC agendas after 9/11.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2124500/

	27-08-2005 16:50									#40
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.

	27-08-2005 18:55									#41
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I don't care about Cindy Sheehan at all.


but I do think the right's attacks on her are despicable... it just goes to show they have no ground to stand on. They can't defend the president's policies so they attack a woman because of her personal beliefs.

	27-08-2005 19:04									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten From a statement she sent to Nightline... quote: Am I emotional? Yes, my first born was murdered. Am I angry? Yes, he was killed for lies and for a PNAC Neo-Con agenda to benefit Israel. My son joined the army to protect America, not Israel. Am I stupid? No, I know full well that my son, my family, this nation and this world were betrayed by George Bush who was influenced by the neo-con PNAC agendas after 9/11. http://slate.msn.com/id/2124500/

Already dealt with in another thread.

No one has been able to verify this alleged e-mail to Nightline, as it first cropped up on right-wing sources like Newsmax and Freeperville. Note how Slate doesn't have any sort of link to it. Why not?

http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/8/15/203827/894

quote: Hitchens attributes this quote to Cindy Sheehan, saying it was sent to the editors of Nightline on March 15th. If you run it through Google, all you get are Hitchens and right-wing web sites like Free Republic.

Looks like Hitchens is just another non-fact-checking freeper hack.

Sheehan has denied she wrote that in her e-mail (most of what she wrote is true, she says, but she says someone inserted the parts about Israel), and so far, I've not seen any thing to contradict her on that. Given the dishonesty of the smears coming from the right against her in general, I wouldn't be surprised in the least that it was just manufactured.

	27-08-2005 19:44									#43
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even though we had our differences over Lance, I still you Boris... no one quite beats down the righties like you...

	27-08-2005 20:00									#44
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Get away from me, you Firefly hater.

	27-08-2005 20:15									#45
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Even though I'm neutral on this issue ( I haven't thought it out fully ) , I think that everyone has forgotten that her son was pro-war , and that his opinions count for more than hers do .

	27-08-2005 20:36									#46
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Cindy Sheehan Denies Anti-Israel Remarks.

quote: Monday night on CNN Sheehan tells Cooper, "I didn't -- I didn't say -- I didn't say that my son died for Israel. I've never said that. I saw somebody wrote that and it wasn't my words. Those aren't even words that I would say. I do believe that the Palestinian issue is a hot issue that needs to be solved and it needs to be more fair and equitable but I never said my son died for Israel." Cooper asks numerous times if she was sure whether or not if she said the statement but Sheehan denies the remarks. The nightline letter is confirmed by ABC News which says that Mrs. Sheehan had indeed signed her name to the letter.

	27-08-2005 20:42									#47
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I don't see how having a family member, friend or other acquaintance die in this war makes your opinion any more valuable. I mean, other than for purposes of publicity manipulation by political parties. Her son's death has not provided her with anything other than a blinding emotional factor, as well as the lift to national media coverage.

	27-08-2005 20:46									#48
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There's also the truely bizzare nuclear war quote. And her "America isn't worth dying for" statememt...

Sheehan is not the face the anti-war community wants. She''s going to push away people as well as pull others in.

Last edited by Edan on 27-08-2005 at 20:55

	27-08-2005 20:47									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Verto I don't see how having a family member, friend or other acquaintance die in this war makes your opinion any more valuable. I mean, other than for purposes of publicity manipulation by political parties. Her son's death has not provided her with anything other than a blinding emotional factor, as well as the lift to national media coverage.

Well said.

It's truely sad how both parties do this.

	27-08-2005 20:55									#50
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quote: Already dealt with in another thread.

No kidding. I posted ABC's confirmation of Sheehan's comments on another thread, as Edan has here.

	27-08-2005 21:42									#51
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Dis - you gave me the first laugh I've had in this debate, it is still way to personal typically for me to laugh.

quote: Better than Iran or Saudi Arabia (yeah that's not saying much )

Actually, the numbers of dead must be in the thousands, as in mostly Shia but also Kurds and Sunni, and I would not be surprised if they have broken five figures. I attibute car bombs NOT targeted at US soldiers and specifically targeting Kurds or Shia because of their ethnic origin as part of the Civil War that IS developing.

If we could have gotten a Turkey out of this, then I might, just might have supported the war. However, daddy Bush didn't think we could get one, nor did the Turks believe it was possible. That's why I went with the experts, rat bastards though both are, when I said this war was folly. What is truly tragic is that Bush Jr. and his administration truly believed they could get a Turkey out of it - I guess they thought that Saddam and Assad exterminated towns or small cities when a religious insurrection occured just for jollies, instead of calculated brutality to guarantee they did not follow the Shah's fate.

	27-08-2005 21:47									#52
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How difficult is it to modify an e-mail? I will say that anyone sending an e-mail to a potentially hostile recipient should "cc" additional copies to a neutral source.

	27-08-2005 22:02									#53
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Mrs. Sheehan:


Anything that makes the Republican Party look bad is a good thing.

	27-08-2005 22:23									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Already dealt with in another thread. No kidding. I posted ABC's confirmation of Sheehan's comments on another thread, as Edan has here.

ABC didn't confirm anything other than what Sheehan already acknowledged--that she wrote an e-mail to them. However, her point is that the e-mail being circulated contains things she didn't write in it. There's been no ABC denial of that, and so far there hasn't been any official posting of the e-mail from ABC.

Note that the source (Richard Lowry of NRO, or all things, which seems to be the only source of it) of Edan's link says:

quote: In a nut shell, ABC now says it talked to Sheehan and she said she did in fact write the letter in question after all and she did receive an e-mail from ABC confirming that ABC had received it. But she thinks the version on the web has been tampered with. Very, very strange...

And it provides no links itself.

	27-08-2005 22:36									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Get away from me, you Firefly hater.

	27-08-2005 22:42									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Verto I don't see how having a family member, friend or other acquaintance die in this war makes your opinion any more valuable. I mean, other than for purposes of publicity manipulation by political parties. Her son's death has not provided her with anything other than a blinding emotional factor, as well as the lift to national media coverage.

I don't see where Sheehan has ever claimed her opinion matters more than others. On the contrary, it's the wingnuts who have been claiming her opinion doesn't matter.

	27-08-2005 22:44									#57
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quote: Originally posted by rmsharpe A more appropriate comment would be that Cindy Sheehan has no dignity and no fundamental understanding of United States foreign and military policy.

Yes, it's all nice and easy to ask others to die on the frontline when you comment from a safe distance. Mr George W Bush and you should to fight in Iraq for awhile. Face the horror. Get your limbs blown away by road side bombs.

If you support the war, go fight it yourself. Didn't you say something about empty rhetoric?

	27-08-2005 22:46									#58
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Bush was quoted again recently saying we have to sacrifice.

What have you sacrificed, Mr. Bush? Certainly not any of your vacation time (5 weeks). And I don't see you urging your daughters to enlist...

	27-08-2005 22:52									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Verto I don't see how having a family member, friend or other acquaintance die in this war makes your opinion any more valuable. I mean, other than for purposes of publicity manipulation by political parties. Her son's death has not provided her with anything other than a blinding emotional factor, as well as the lift to national media coverage.

OTOH, if said person is not signficiant, why does the right seem to be so desperate to take her down, by hook or by crook?

	27-08-2005 22:56									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger OTOH, if said person is not signficiant, why does the right seem to be so desperate to take her down, by hook or by crook?

Because she keeps changing her mind! Gosh darn it, can't you see that she's just another John Kerry?