27-08-2005 10:10									#1
	Cindy Sheehan Has No Moral Authority Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

That according to Fred Barnes, a GOP sychophant disguised as a reporter and regular "contributor" to Brit Hume's show on Fox.

1) Her son died in Iraq

2) Her son died in Iraq because our leader took us to war based on falsehoods

3) Her son died in Iraq because our leader lied to us

4) Fred Barnes promoted that war

5) And she has no moral authority to demand answers?

Disgusting

In every fruitless war someone must stand up and question those in power, that person is a hero in my book. Why am I not surprised by the fact many of the same people who pushed for this war are accusing her of deceit and mental incompetence (to put it nicely)?

	27-08-2005 10:31									#2
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In war, there are casualties, and Cindy is unlucky enough to be one of them.

	27-08-2005 10:34									#3
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Berzerker,

They are basically trying to Swiftboat her. Unforuntatley for them, it's not working to their advantage. The usual party faithul will believe it, but most of the rest of us see through the BS.

The latest Swiftboating is going to backfire.

I thought it was disgustin when O'Reilly called her treasonous.

	27-08-2005 10:43									#5
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By the way, the Sheehan camp sent a letter to the President. When they went to deliver it, the Secret Service refused to accept it. So they left the letter on the ground.

But, there was another pro-Bush group called, "I don't give a SHEET," that delivered about 20 signed sheets in support of the President.

Those were accepted by the same Secret Service in the same location.

The letter is still laying on the ground.

	27-08-2005 10:43									#6
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Yeah, of course she has moral authority, but this could be played well. Sometimes, or most of the times, the best thing to do would be just keep quiet and let the thing die away.

But now, I don't think it's going away so this could be just played well and use it. If I was Bush, I'd wait for few weeks more, and then if she's still there, I'd invite her to one-on-one. Some coffee, and a real 1-on-1. No press, no nothing. And then, basically grant her wish. Make those questions. Answer to your best ability, and be respectful and kind. That's it.

	27-08-2005 10:49									#7
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I wonder why her particular story has garnered so much press. And who has moral authority to speak about this war? What does "moral authority" even mean, and is it worth a damn?

	27-08-2005 10:49									#8
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They are leaving the ranch I think in late September to have a march on Washington.

I don't know if they are coming back after that.

	27-08-2005 11:07									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker They are leaving the ranch I think in late September to have a march on Washington. I don't know if they are coming back after that.

I think that's when Bush goes back to the WH.

	27-08-2005 11:16									#10
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I'm not quite sure what to think about Cindy Sheehan — I've read that she's already had a meeting with the president (whether individually or as part of a group I don't know), and that she's called him some pretty nasty things that can't be printed in a newspaper.

I certainly sympathize with her, but if she's already met Bush once and has called him nasty things despite that ... well, I can sort of see why he might not want to meet twice with her.

Gatekeeper

	27-08-2005 11:17									#11
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quote: And who has moral authority to speak about this war? What does "moral authority" even mean, and is it worth a damn?

Its obvious what it is and who has it, and it sure is worth a damn. Wars started by democracies for dubious reasons can be stopped pdq by public opinion.

	27-08-2005 11:20									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper I'm not quite sure what to think about Cindy Sheehan — I've read that she's already had a meeting with the president (whether individually or as part of a group I don't know), and that she's called him some pretty nasty things that can't be printed in a newspaper. I certainly sympathize with her, but if she's already met Bush once and has called him nasty things despite that ... well, I can sort of see why he might not want to meet twice with her. Gatekeeper

I think what happened is that she initially was okay with the first meeting. But then later she learned that the whole Weapons of Mass Destruction thing was a lie so that set her off.

	27-08-2005 11:21									#13
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A more appropriate comment would be that Cindy Sheehan has no dignity and no fundamental understanding of United States foreign and military policy.

	27-08-2005 11:22									#14
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quote: Originally posted by rmsharpe A more appropriate comment would be that Cindy Sheehan has no dignity and no fundamental understanding of United States foreign and military policy.

And you do?

Well tell us champ.

	27-08-2005 11:27									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper I'm not quite sure what to think about Cindy Sheehan � I've read that she's already had a meeting with the president (whether individually or as part of a group I don't know), and that she's called him some pretty nasty things that can't be printed in a newspaper. I certainly sympathize with her, but if she's already met Bush once and has called him nasty things despite that ... well, I can sort of see why he might not want to meet twice with her. Gatekeeper

Apparently it was in a group and she did not feel like being antagonistic at that time in front of those parents of dead soldiers. She didn't really say anything at that meeting, just listened to Bush.

But Ted may also be right that she realized it was a bunch of BS and got very distraught that her son died for that.

	27-08-2005 11:27									#16
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quote: I'm not quite sure what to think about Cindy Sheehan — I've read that she's already had a meeting with the president (whether individually or as part of a group I don't know), and that she's called him some pretty nasty things that can't be printed in a newspaper.

Part of a group, and after the meeting she didn't think very poorly of Bush. But then it became apparent later the war was based on bogus arguments, nay, deceitful arguments. Thats when she started down this track... O'Really accused her of lying because she had a change of opinion about Bush citing her comments after that meeting. According to that logic, everyone who has a change of opinion about the character of others is also a liar.

quote: I certainly sympathize with her, but if she's already met Bush once and has called him nasty things despite that ... well, I can sort of see why he might not want to meet twice with her.

Alot of information about how we got into this war came out after that meeting. She wants him to answer for his deception...

	27-08-2005 11:33									#17
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quote: A more appropriate comment would be that Cindy Sheehan has no dignity and no fundamental understanding of United States foreign and military policy.

She has more dignity in her pinky than her critics combined. But from what I've heard from her, we wouldn't even be in this mess if we had been following her understanding of the world. We're in this because we've spent decades mucking around in the Middle East and now the dragons have followed us home.

	27-08-2005 11:54									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker And you do? Well tell us champ.

I know that having a "bring the troops home" and "Bush is a terrorist" attitude as a reflex isn't necessarily well thought out policy disagreements.

In fact, she doesn't even have disagreements, just hate-filled rhetoric. She's said that the we invaded Iraq "for Israel," called George Bush the "world's biggest terrorist," and when asked about 9/11 she said bin Laden was an "alleged terrorist."

She's just a flake with a big mouth.

	27-08-2005 11:57									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker But from what I've heard from her, we wouldn't even be in this mess if we had been following her understanding of the world.

Cut off the ayatollah's penis and you've got a second Sheehan.

	27-08-2005 12:00									#20
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quote: Originally posted by rmsharpe I know that having a "bring the troops home" and "Bush is a terrorist" attitude as a reflex isn't necessarily well thought out policy disagreements. In fact, she doesn't even have disagreements, just hate-filled rhetoric. She's said that the we invaded Iraq "for Israel," called George Bush the "world's biggest terrorist," and when asked about 9/11 she said bin Laden was an "alleged terrorist." She's just a flake with a big mouth.

Who just happens to have a son who died because of a lie.

Bush is the first President in history to throw out the Geneva Conventions. We routinely torture innocent people.

Think about that when you're considering this "well thought out policy."

	27-08-2005 12:00									#21
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quote: Originally posted by rmsharpe Cut off the ayatollah's penis and you've got a second Sheehan.

So basically you have your own set of hate filled rhetoric so what makes yours any more legitmate?

	27-08-2005 12:06									#22
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Is this lady still blaming her son's death on the Jooos?

	27-08-2005 12:15									#23
	Re: Cindy Sheehan Has No Moral Authority Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Berzerker That according to Fred Barnes, a GOP sychophant disguised as a reporter and regular "contributor" to Brit Hume's show on Fox. 1) Her son died in Iraq 2) Her son died in Iraq because our leader took us to war based on falsehoods 3) Her son died in Iraq because our leader lied to us 4) Fred Barnes promoted that war 5) And she has no moral authority to demand answers?

Does she somehow have more "moral authority" than any other citizen to demand answers, ask questions, etc?

	27-08-2005 12:20									#24
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quote: Originally posted by rmsharpe A more appropriate comment would be that Cindy Sheehan has no dignity and no fundamental understanding of United States foreign and military policy.

Neither has the President

	27-08-2005 12:24									#25
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	27-08-2005 12:48									#26
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quote: Cut off the ayatollah's penis and you've got a second Sheehan.

Wrong, you'd have a Bush.

quote: I know that having a "bring the troops home" and "Bush is a terrorist" attitude as a reflex isn't necessarily well thought out policy disagreements. In fact, she doesn't even have disagreements, just hate-filled rhetoric. She's said that the we invaded Iraq "for Israel," called George Bush the "world's biggest terrorist," and when asked about 9/11 she said bin Laden was an "alleged terrorist." She's just a flake with a big mouth.

She lost her son because of the lies of someone you are defending. So much for your definition of "dignity"...

quote: Does she somehow have more "moral authority" than any other citizen to demand answers, ask questions, etc?

Yes, her son died in Iraq. And she has stood up to take the abuse from those who perpetrated or promoted the lies.

	27-08-2005 13:13									#27
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The difference between me and Cindy Sheehan - I never bought the bogus excuses to begin with, as in my thread on my own family's loss (and you guys were wonderful, too). I was pissed then, and - well, I still hope Bush rots in hell. Oh, and he never bothered to see my sister, they didn't clean up the body - it still had the heart monitoring tabs in place when she got it (and if that's standard policy at DOD - what morons at least don't try to pretty the body up a little for the first time the widow and parents see it ), and her letter of condolence from Rumsfeld was signed by an auto-pen. This administration has the dignity of - damn, I cannot think of anything low enough.

BTW - Berszerker, and I just posted on this in another thread, reference some of our historical disagreements on the Imperial Presidency, overreaching Federalism, etc. : You - told - me - so. You're right about where it leads.

	27-08-2005 13:20									#28
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Shawn, forgot about that you lost a family member.

Condolences.

	27-08-2005 13:39									#29
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I support Cyndi, even though I think she's wrong. It would be a mistake to leave now.

But I like drama and excitement. I'm hoping this grows into a huge protest. I want to see some riots. I wasn't born when the cool Vietnam war riots happened. I missed all the fun . It seems like all the cool stuff happened before I was born. No one cares about anything anymore. The only time you see a cool riot is when a sports team wins a national championship. It's sad, people don't care enough about anything anymore to cause massive property damage.

	27-08-2005 13:45									#30
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Dis - I used to subscribe to that idea (stay the course). Now I am not so sure. If we stay in Iraq, we end up with - a semi-democratic theocracy that is friendly to Iran. If we leave Iraq soon, we end up with a vicious Civil War, and - a theocracy that is in bed with Iraq. I am not so sure the difference is worth it.