28-08-2005 00:43									#61
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There's a national mobilization against the war in D.C. on Sept 24. Perhaps the police can do some more of their "stellar" intelligence by checking out the websites and attending open meetings. Cindy Sheehan will be leaving Crawford soon and going on a national bus tour, culminating in D.C. on the 24th of Sept.



It's not really all that amazing that the Bush Administration has handled this so badly. What have they ever handled well?

	28-08-2005 00:47									#62
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara There's a national mobilization against the war in D.C. on Sept 24. Perhaps the police can do some more of their "stellar" intelligence by checking out the websites and attending open meetings. Cindy Sheehan will be leaving Crawford soon and going on a national bus tour, culminating in D.C. on the 24th of Sept. It's not really all that amazing that the Bush Administration has handled this so badly. What have they ever handled well?

bush was considered a good president after the war in Afghanistan.

	28-08-2005 00:48									#63
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Shut up, you!

	28-08-2005 01:00									#64
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Does she have a moral authoriry. Of course she does. The USA is a democracy and every American has the moral authority to speak their opinion.

quote: Originally posted by Verto I don't see how having a family member, friend or other acquaintance die in this war makes your opinion any more valuable

Because it is very easy to talk about how the war is just or not just when you haven't paid the price. The opinion pf people here who have served in Iraq, or who have lost a family member, carry more weight than the rest of us. Does that mean that we must agree with them? No. Should we treat their opinion with respect? Yes.

	28-08-2005 01:17									#65
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quote: The opinion pf people here who have served in Iraq, or who have lost a family member, carry more weight than the rest of us.

Agreed, and the vast majority do not agree with Mrs. Sheehan

	28-08-2005 01:45									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos Sheehan is a greiving mother who has lost her grasp on reality. These people have existed in every war, and you are only cheering her on because her greif induced fanaticism is in line with your political though. You are using this poor woman. I feel for he emotionally, losing a loved one is not easy. But believing her protest is motivated by anything but a jealous hatred of the military and Iraq war which stole her son (and if it was WWII she would be doing the same thing), which by all accounts her son loved and believed in, is basically falling for into the same trap you accuse Bush of. Making rash emotional decisions not thought through. And what I definetly don't like is how she parades around to represent the soldiers and military families, who for the most part dispise her for warping her sons beliefs for he personal goals. The vast majority of the military and their families, like 80%, are not on her side on this.

Tell that to the military families that surround her at Camp Casey. They certainly support her.

	28-08-2005 01:45									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos Agreed, and the vast majority do not agree with Mrs. Sheehan

Prove it.

	28-08-2005 01:56									#68
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Sheehan has never claimed to represent anyone but herself. Once again, the wingnuts can't seem to get things right in their frothing attacks on her.

	28-08-2005 02:02									#69
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Exactly

More Swiftboating

This whole pattern of just "making things up" is making me really angry.

	28-08-2005 02:03									#70
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You guys are having a lot of trouble seeing the true causality of the situation. Bush did not kill her son. Her son signed a quid pro quo agreement; he would serve as he was instructed in exchange for money, training and other benefits. When a person signs up for the military, there is no clause in the agreement saying anything similar to "you are guarenteed that you will think all wars are just and approve of the actions taken by the military of the United States." It really pisses me off that before this war people though joining the military was a free ride. The purpose of a military is to fight. Fighting can cause you to die. Sheehan knew her son was signing up, and did not stop him. She is as much to blame as anyone else.

Also, she has proven through her statements that her position is one of mindless hate, not logical opposition. The loss of her son has clearly caused her a great deal of emotional duress, and she is lashing out. The people who know her best, her family, have refused to support her, her husband has filed for divorce, and i'm sure she views these as betrayals caused by bush as well.

	28-08-2005 02:12									#71
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Her husband filed for divorce but he supports her efforts in the protest.

So what other "people that know her best" in her family refuse to support her?

Man, this character assassination/Swiftboating know no end.

The problem her is that you guys just have nothing on her so it won't stick.

Keep trying though.

	28-08-2005 02:15									#72
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http://www.pardonmyenglish.com/arch...han_family.html

	28-08-2005 02:19									#73
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quote: Our family has been so distressed by the recent activities of Cindy we are breaking our silence and we have collectively written a statement for release. Feel free to distribute it as you wish. Thanks, Cherie In response to questions regarding the Cindy Sheehan/Crawford Texas issue: Sheehan Family Statement: The Sheehan Family lost our beloved Casey in the Iraq War and we have been silently, respectfully grieving. We do not agree with the political motivations and publicity tactics of Cindy Sheehan. She now appears to be promoting her own personal agenda and notoriety at the the expense of her son's good name and reputation. The rest of the Sheehan Family supports the troops, our country, and our President, silently, with prayer and respect. Sincerely, Casey Sheehan's grandparents, aunts, uncles and numerous cousins.

	28-08-2005 02:20									#74
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Where's the actual email? Besides a reproduced retyped claim from the Drudge Report?

	28-08-2005 02:21									#75
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have you ever seen anyone post an actual e-mail file? i haven't

	28-08-2005 02:22									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Sheehan has never claimed to represent anyone but herself. Once again, the wingnuts can't seem to get things right in their frothing attacks on her.

I have a feeling some left wing groups are giving her money though. I could be wrong. But she's getting support from somewhere. I admit, I'm not following closely. But it's obvious she can't work a job by doing this. So she has to get money from somewhere to pay the bills.

	28-08-2005 02:24									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Kaak have you ever seen anyone post an actual e-mail file? i haven't

YES

Without header information and a full IP trace it's irrelevent.

Also interesting that Drudge has been smearing her the whole time.

	28-08-2005 02:27									#78
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headers have contact info in them, and i;d be willing to bet the sheehan family doesn't want that on a national new story...

	28-08-2005 02:34									#79
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They can blank out some of that info.

We could at least hear news to verify whether the email is real or not.

	28-08-2005 02:37									#80
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Cherie Quarterolo, who wrote that e-mail, isn't even related to the family. She was Casey Sheehan's godmother, for pete's sake. And there's absolutely no way to know just how many members of the family she is representing, if any. Pathetic.

Those that were closest to Casey--his father and sister--all openly support Cindy Sheehan.

	28-08-2005 02:37									#81
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i'm sure if it wasn't real, cindy would have made sure it made the news...it's not like a) she doesn't get enough press coverage and b) she doesn't dislike drudge.

Now you are turning a blind eye to ignore the obvious...tisk tisk

	28-08-2005 02:37									#82
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Boris: link?

	28-08-2005 02:39									#83
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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/news/iraq/family?rowid=13

quote: Pat and Cindy Sheehan father, mother and sister The Sheehans do not believe that Iraq was an imminent threat to the United States or that the decision to invade was the right one. They said the war has made the nation less safe, and that the troops should be withdrawn. They support John Kerry for president.

	28-08-2005 02:41									#84
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That article includes cindy...she could have been making those statements, not the others. there is no way to tell. I also like how y'all had no arguement against the first part of my post.

	28-08-2005 02:48									#85
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The problem with the first part of your post is that that's not how it works in reality. Come on Kaak, you've seen those juicy recruiting pitches.

As far as blaming soliders who sign up to learn skills, while they may share some of the responsibilty, most of it falls onto the recruiting process, which pitches learning those skills as a big part of its recruiting process.

Then you have the Guard and Reserve situation, where it is, "2 weekends a month, 2 weeks a year," not, "your ass is going to be targeted by a bunch of people wanting to kill you for the next 12 months." The National Guard should not have been used for overseas operations. The Reserve sure, but not the Guard.

Even in the Active Duty segments, what these guys have been used for is bogus. There's a line in Behind Enemy Lines that says something to the effect of, "I thought I was going to get the chance to punch Goebels in the face. I have no idea why we're here."

Whether you like it or not, there is a large segment of soldiers that sign up hoping that they will be doing their duty to their country, defending it for a worthy cause. And yes the whole, "worthy cause" is also sold as a part of the recruiting process.

That's the whole point of why Sheehan is pissed off. She thought her son was sent off to defend this country from Weapons of Mass Destruction, when those weapons knowingly never existed in the first place.

Her son died for a lie.

	28-08-2005 02:50									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Kaak That article includes cindy...she could have been making those statements, not the others. there is no way to tell. I also like how y'all had no arguement against the first part of my post.

The article (and photo) clearly features both Cindy and her husband.

If they were opposed to her, I'm sure we would have heard about it. They aren't exactly in hiding. Can you find me any statements that they oppose her?

As for not having an argument against the first part, none is needed, because it's inane. You're relying on an e-mail from someone who isn't part of the family claiming the family stands opposed to her. If they are, where are the statements from the actual, you know, family members?

Yup, pathetic wingnut hackery.

Look, it doesn't even matter if Cindy's entire family stands with her, against her, or indifferent. It's completely irrelevant and just an attempt by the wingnuts to distract from the real issue at hand.

	28-08-2005 02:53									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Look, it doesn't even matter if Cindy's entire family stands with her, against her, or indifferent. It's completely irrelevant and just an attempt by the wingnuts to distract from the real issue at hand.

	28-08-2005 02:54									#88
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http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08...awford.protest/

quote: Cindy Sheehan, right, and her sister leave "Camp Casey" in Crawford, Texas, on Thursday.

So that's Casey Sheehan's dad, sister and aunt all confirmed by reports on Cindy's side. And only a godparent confirmed on the other.

And no, it still doesn't matter, but I like to shut up the wingnuts who make false claims.

	28-08-2005 02:57									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Dis I have a feeling some left wing groups are giving her money though. I could be wrong. But she's getting support from somewhere. I admit, I'm not following closely. But it's obvious she can't work a job by doing this. So she has to get money from somewhere to pay the bills.

That has nothing to do with whether or not she claims to be representing anyone else's views. She has staked out her position, and if there are people who support her in that and want to help, that's great. But she's not going around saying she speaks for anyone else.

	28-08-2005 03:00									#90
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i was referring to the part about causality boris