29-08-2005 13:57									#31
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Agreed, sandy deserts are more hilly than flat.

Some sandy deserts reach the height of mountains.

rocky deserts do have a lot of flat, but they do have a lot of rocky mountains aswell, just look at Afghanistan.

	29-08-2005 14:04									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Compare that to Snoopys' or Warpstorms terrain?

Firaxis lose again. So the gameplay had better be good.

They should aim again at improving the overview, which is where the majority of the game time is spent, and I hope the city screens are good...



But with Soren coding the AI from scratch, I don't doubt that we can end up with a good game out of this.

	29-08-2005 15:56									#33
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

what can I say.. I dont like civ4 graphics so far.. hope gameplay will be awesome

	29-08-2005 17:21									#34
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Well, IIRC desert hills are introduced.

	29-08-2005 17:42									#35
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: You may not want any eye candy at all (as you say) but if im in a little virtual world on a computer game, id rather be commanding animated units, than pushing 2D counters around.

Well, I just remember than in Civ1, with 2D-icons, it never hurt my fun, and I can still ave great fun with Civ1. And I know I'd be unhappy about the eye candy if I didn't have a computer quite capable of handling whatever graphics Civ4 has.

	29-08-2005 18:36									#36
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Good graphics and bad gameplay gives a bad game.
Bad graphics and good gameplay gives a good game.
Good graphics and good gameplay gives at a minimum a good game with an extra dimension.

IMHO.

I have played several great games with bad graphics, but if it looks good too, that adds to the experience. But also important is the interface. A good game with good graphics but bad interface will probably not last long...

	29-08-2005 19:12									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Civ4's graphics are fine...

plus, Civ4 isn't a FPS... good graphics aren't one of my expectations

	29-08-2005 21:51									#38
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Sava plus, Civ4 isn't a FPS... good graphics aren't one of my expectations

Mine either but it seems to be for other people, or as the gaming companies execs think, almost everyone so they cater to eye candy, spend time and money on graphics and less time and money on gameplay...and that is why we get so many great looking games but no fun to play.

but after playing a game live Civ, I don't pay attention to graphics because after 100 hours + you don't pay attention to graphics anymore but just the game play because you get use to graphics. Graphics are only good for when you first play it the first 20 hours or so, then it's just all blended in toghter.

hmm... I can't set up a poll, can someone set up a poll for me with something like

yes, I want great graphics over gameplay
yes, I want great gameplay over graphics
yes, I want both

add what ever I might have forgotten.

Thanks

davor

	29-08-2005 22:16									#39
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Yolky but after playing a game live Civ, I don't pay attention to graphics because after 100 hours + you don't pay attention to graphics anymore but just the game play because you get use to graphics. Graphics are only good for when you first play it the first 20 hours or so, then it's just all blended in toghter.

The same here... as a matter of fact I installed CivNet a few months ago. I didn't care about the graphics at all, but it was diffecult to play because the controls used back then isn't the same as now

quote: Originally posted by Yolky hmm... I can't set up a poll, can someone set up a poll for me with something like yes, I want great graphics over gameplay yes, I want great gameplay over graphics yes, I want both

I did a poll like that once, and to no suprise most people voted gameplay over graphics... hey, this is a Civ site afterall

	30-08-2005 00:19									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Sn00py Agreed, sandy deserts are more hilly than flat. Some sandy deserts reach the height of mountains. rocky deserts do have a lot of flat, but they do have a lot of rocky mountains aswell, just look at Afghanistan.

or Las Vegas. Our mt. Charleston has a peak of 11,918 feet. Which is high enough that it's above the treeline (no trees or plant life can grow up that high).

Deserts are not flat! Despite what the civ3 designers think. They act like every desert looks like the Sahara or the middle east.

	30-08-2005 00:21									#41
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Yolky Mine either but it seems to be for other people, or as the gaming companies execs think, almost everyone so they cater to eye candy, spend time and money on graphics and less time and money on gameplay...and that is why we get so many great looking games but no fun to play. but after playing a game live Civ, I don't pay attention to graphics because after 100 hours + you don't pay attention to graphics anymore but just the game play because you get use to graphics. Graphics are only good for when you first play it the first 20 hours or so, then it's just all blended in toghter. hmm... I can't set up a poll, can someone set up a poll for me with something like yes, I want great graphics over gameplay yes, I want great gameplay over graphics yes, I want both add what ever I might have forgotten. Thanks davor

yeah but be careful about when you say you don't pay attention to things after a while. We all said we never paid attention to wonder movies and advisors in civ2 after the first few games. And then they got rid of them. .

It's funny, you only miss them once they are gone.

	30-08-2005 06:04									#42
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Are wonder movies back? Those stupid, antic, wonder pics in Civ 3 were pitiful.

	30-08-2005 06:37									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Yes they are back.

Krill, there are no city screens (that is if you are referring to the city view).

	30-08-2005 08:51									#44
	Get a bigger avatar today!

So far I've really liked the graphics in Civ IV. I especially like that "cartoonish" look.

By the way, in that world map posted by Mark, I see circles with people in them. Is that pointing to where your units are? I also see some with a lion in it. I presume those are some of the wild animals I've been hearing about . . . yes?

	30-08-2005 09:11									#45
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Chronus9 So far I've really liked the graphics in Civ IV. I especially like that "cartoonish" look. By the way, in that world map posted by Mark, I see circles with people in them. Is that pointing to where your units are? I also see some with a lion in it. I presume those are some of the wild animals I've been hearing about . . . yes?

Makes sense.

I'm not a fan of the unit circle thingies. I assume it's just a special view of some sort, but it's ugly and doesn't look very clear

	30-08-2005 09:19									#46
	Support Apolyton

Just one thing: I don't think that map in RoL is randomly generated. It's much more difficult to generate something that impressive-looking randomly.

	30-08-2005 12:51									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Chronus9 By the way, in that world map posted by Mark, I see circles with people in them. Is that pointing to where your units are? I also see some with a lion in it. I presume those are some of the wild animals I've been hearing about . . . yes?

they are probably your units, given the similar icons on cities (showing what it produces?)

the lions are very early barbarian units

	30-08-2005 12:53									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Sabre2th I assume it's just a special view of some sort, but it's ugly and doesn't look very clear

obviously you wont be giving unit movement orders from that view. it's just allows you to see the entire world and make some strategic decisions

and it's a cool side-effect of the whole "zoomable world in 3d" thing(they could do it so they've probably found some use for it)

	30-08-2005 13:40									#49
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Sn00py Yes they are back. Krill, there are no city screens (that is if you are referring to the city view).

no city screens?

I'm not so sure I like that. city screens just feel right.

	30-08-2005 18:29									#50
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I noticed the Units seem a little big compared to the other cities, and land scape. For, example the units tower over the cites by almost 3 times as much, looks very unrealistic.

	30-08-2005 18:57									#51
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

these sizes are controlled through notepad-edited xml files...

	30-08-2005 19:46									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by MarkG these sizes are controlled through notepad-edited xml files...

But we'll be able to set up only three different size: very tall, giant, Super King Size!
Firaxis is an US company, I mean, not some microscopic Liechtenstein clockbuilder artisan (just kidding!)

	30-08-2005 21:03									#53
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by akulla I noticed the Units seem a little big compared to the other cities, and land scape. For, example the units tower over the cites by almost 3 times as much, looks very unrealistic.

*sigh*

This is pretty much the same ratio as in C2 and C3. If you look at the normal zoom shots, the units look normal sized.

	30-08-2005 21:34									#54
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

@ Kuci

	31-08-2005 00:35									#55
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Sn00py Krill, there are no city screens (that is if you are referring to the city view).

City Screen/Manager (ala Civ3 F1) are supposedly available for the micromanager though you can supposedly do MOST everything from the map view. The City View that was killed in Conquests you get by just zooming in REAL close on the map!

	31-08-2005 02:49									#56
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Sn00py Yes they are back. Krill, there are no city screens (that is if you are referring to the city view).

The city screen in C3C, when you zoomed to the city (so you could find the shields per trun, food per turn, commerce per turn, builds produced, luxs, resources you had et al).

Basically that screen had all you needed to MM that particular city. I hope that Firaxis do something similar in CIV, because I want the info there, easy to find and read, and use in calculations.

	31-08-2005 03:10									#57
	Got spare money?

I don't think that's the city screen they got rid of. I think they got rid of the view that was pure eyecandy, which showed a pretty representation of all the buildings in the city and such.

	31-08-2005 03:41									#58
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker I don't think that's the city screen they got rid of. I think they got rid of the view that was pure eyecandy, which showed a pretty representation of all the buildings in the city and such.

Yeah, the birds-eye view of the city.

	31-08-2005 03:44									#59
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Solver quote: You may not want any eye candy at all (as you say) but if im in a little virtual world on a computer game, id rather be commanding animated units, than pushing 2D counters around. Well, I just remember than in Civ1, with 2D-icons, it never hurt my fun, and I can still ave great fun with Civ1. And I know I'd be unhappy about the eye candy if I didn't have a computer quite capable of handling whatever graphics Civ4 has.

Never hurt your fun because low-res/colour 2D icons will always be fine for civ, or because you didnt expect more back then?

As I said, that extra detail makes more than just eye candy or good promo shots, it adds atmosphere, which increases enjoyment of the game.

As for requirements, I trust Firaxis (or any developer for that matter) to avoid excluding the majority of their potential customers with relatively high system requirements.

	31-08-2005 04:19									#60
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Never hurt your fun because low-res/colour 2D icons will always be fine for civ, or because you didnt expect more back then?

Because they will always be fine for Civ, *for me*. I realise that lots of people will disagree. I didn't get to play Civ1 in 1993 or whatever - I played it relatively late, I had played Doom before Civ, so I knew computer graphics can be far better. I didn't really "expect" anything, though, due to inexperience.