28-08-2005 08:08									#1
	Civ4 graphics need some work Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Just saw the ROL 3d graphics posted here:

http://apolyton.net/dir/index.php?id=4737&t=fullimage

I never thought I was an eyecandy guy but I was turned off by Civ4s graphics and now seeing the ROL screen shot I feel civ4definietely needs a little more effort. I hope these pre-screenies for civ4 are not the final graphics.

	28-08-2005 08:15									#2
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straight from your post

quote: Originally posted by E to each his own...

	28-08-2005 09:51									#3
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Nice mountains. The coast line isn't bad, too.

	28-08-2005 09:53									#4
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Btw, I would like to see some screenshots with the grid turned "on". If we have a grid at all...

	28-08-2005 10:16									#5
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I don't want nice graphics, but AWSOME game play. Graphics are good enought for me. I am sick and tired of games going on graphics and not game play.

	28-08-2005 11:44									#6
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Civ is Civ and RoN is RoN. I donīt see why they should look alike.

	28-08-2005 12:18									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Yolky I don't want nice graphics, but AWSOME game play. Graphics are good enought for me. I am sick and tired of games going on graphics and not game play.

So if ROL has great gameplay aswell, will you and people like you, stop using that same ignorant excuse?

quote: Civ is Civ and RoN is RoN. I donīt see why they should look alike.

You're the first person to imply that RoN and Civ should not look alike; if you were aware of that, then of course it would be silly if they looked alike.



--------

Let the Graphic Designers handle the graphics and the Programmers handle the programming.

The leaders know Civ's market audience and is catering to them; but they are not letting the rest of us down, they have built it in such a way that the graphics can be changed. You could probably make it look even better than ROL. As soon as I get CivIV, I am going to see how far I can go with the graphics.

	28-08-2005 12:25									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Sn00py You're the first person to imply that RoN and Civ should not look alike; if you were aware of that, then of course it would be silly if they looked alike.

Ehh, I think you lost me there My post was a response to Eīs OP.

	28-08-2005 13:21									#9
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I used to not care about graphics but now I want a good game that looks good also...why not? The graphics for RON look really excellent but I too don't expect such high quality from Civ IV. That said, I don't like real time at all so I won't be getting RON and will be buying Civ IV.



In CTP I always liked the mountains, particularly the snow capped ones. Then Civ 3 came out and the mountains looked blah. The mountains in Civ IV look blah also.

Boring mountains in 3 dimentions are still boring mountains.

	28-08-2005 14:20									#10
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Hm,
if Firaxis has the Budget to either hire a good AI-Designer who is able to create an AI which doesnīt need to cheat to beat the human,
or an good Graphics-Designer who will make ioncredible Graphics, Iīd always choose the AI-Designer

But well, as Lancer said, sometimes itīs the small things which donīt need the best Graphic designers who are able to utilize everything modern graphic cards have to offer, to add flavor to a game

	28-08-2005 21:20									#11
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I like a bit of eye candy here and there, but I'd much rather have Firaxis fix up the gameplay. I can download user terrain mods later (get crackin' Sn00py )

quote: if Firaxis has the Budget to either hire a good AI-Designer who is able to create an AI which doesnīt need to cheat to beat the human

It's just not really possible. At this point in human development, we lack the ability to make an AI that smart. Human ingenuity will outwit an AI no matter how good it is right now. It's just a matter of time.

Not to mention they already have an excellent AI guy in Soren...

	28-08-2005 22:42									#12
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ROL is still an RTS game...

I DON'T WANT top-notch graphics in Civ4. Top notch graphics will make the system requirements higher, decrease performance, especially in the late game, and add nothing to the gameplay.

Call me a hardcore or conservative civver, but all I want are functional graphics, I need no eye candy in Civ.

In a RPG, graphics serve a point to make the world more immersive. In a shooter, graphics are important because shooters are like action movies - largely about being visually impressive. In a Civ game, great graphics are not a requirement.

That said, I'm pretty certain that not all of the graphics we have seen in screenies are final ones.

	28-08-2005 23:16									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Solver ROL is still an RTS game... I DON'T WANT top-notch graphics in Civ4. Top notch graphics will make the system requirements higher, decrease performance, especially in the late game, and add nothing to the gameplay.

You can have better graphics without hiking up the system requirements, if the minimum remains the same (speaking as someone with a low-end system).

quote: Call me a hardcore or conservative civver, but all I want are functional graphics, I need no eye candy in Civ.

So would you be happy with simple coloured symbols moving around the screen? Theyre the most functional.

quote: In a RPG, graphics serve a point to make the world more immersive. In a shooter, graphics are important because shooters are like action movies - largely about being visually impressive. In a Civ game, great graphics are not a requirement.

Every game benefits from immersive graphics.

	28-08-2005 23:31									#14
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What is ROL?

	28-08-2005 23:33									#15
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Rise of Legends.

	29-08-2005 00:40									#16
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As I said in the announcement thread, a Civ4 as good as it seems to become, and these kinds of graphics would be awesome, totally awesome, 10x awesome!

	29-08-2005 00:47									#17
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quote: You can have better graphics without hiking up the system requirements, if the minimum remains the same (speaking as someone with a low-end system).

If the levels are tweakable, yeah. But still, great graphics means more people working on art, which will, in turn, make the artists put some limit on what the designers can or can't do. If the game has wonder movies, the designers can't add as many wonders as they want to, they need to count on what the artists can provide.

quote: So would you be happy with simple coloured symbols moving around the screen? Theyre the most functional.

"Functional" is a bit broader, but yes. In any Civ game that I have played, Civ1 graphics remain my favorite. I could see a lot at the same time, all units were easily distinguishable, as was terrain, and it was not downright ugly/hard on the eyes.

	29-08-2005 01:13									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Solver quote: You can have better graphics without hiking up the system requirements, if the minimum remains the same (speaking as someone with a low-end system). If the levels are tweakable, yeah. But still, great graphics means more people working on art, which will, in turn, make the artists put some limit on what the designers can or can't do. If the game has wonder movies, the designers can't add as many wonders as they want to, they need to count on what the artists can provide.

There arent many new 3D PC games that arent "tweakable".

Anyway your original points were that "Top notch graphics will make the system requirements higher, decrease performance, especially in the late game, and add nothing to the gameplay", which are all wrong.

quote: quote: So would you be happy with simple coloured symbols moving around the screen? Theyre the most functional. "Functional" is a bit broader, but yes. In any Civ game that I have played, Civ1 graphics remain my favorite. I could see a lot at the same time, all units were easily distinguishable, as was terrain, and it was not downright ugly/hard on the eyes.

Graphics should always be functional, but why leave out eye candy, when you can perfectly well have both.

	29-08-2005 01:36									#19
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those RON graphics look like shiite.

okay the terrain looks decent, but the units look horrible. And are those supposed to be cities? They look like crap.

	29-08-2005 02:47									#20
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these graphics look sufficient to me.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy...ns.html?page=13

	29-08-2005 02:51									#21
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quote: Graphics should always be functional, but why leave out eye candy, when you can perfectly well have both.

Minimal eye candy, yes. But more than that, and it then becomes more eye candy than functionality. A warrior icon is functional. A 3D warrior model is eye candy. However, that 3D model is much more than is needed for functionality, and overall, it makes the game look very different from one which only uses icons.

	29-08-2005 03:55									#22
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I wonder what the graphics look like when you have the god view though? I'd love to see some more screenies of the CIV graphics when you are viewing your entire empire, and not zoomed in as that gamespot screenie is.

Last edited by Krill on 29-08-2005 at 04:02

	29-08-2005 04:00									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Dis those RON graphics look like shiite.

The beauty is in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?
or "in the eye of the beerholder", as in a famous T-Shirt quote

quote: Originally posted by Dis okay the terrain looks decent, but the units look horrible. And are those supposed to be cities? They look like crap.

AFAIK that's a strategic map screenshot, where units are more a placeholder as in a board game.

Others screenshot show a different story (and a great units look, IMHO).

Anyway, it seems Sn00py will be our lifesaver, just in case Civ IV final need a graphic makeup. Thank you in advance, Sn00py!

	29-08-2005 04:21									#24
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quote: I wonder what the graphics look like when you have the god view though? I'd love to see some more screenies of the CIV graphics when you are viewing your entire empire, and not zoomed in as that gamespot screenie is.

IGN had a couple of those, I think.

	29-08-2005 05:18									#25
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The graphics are OK by me.

	29-08-2005 06:17									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Solver quote: Graphics should always be functional, but why leave out eye candy, when you can perfectly well have both. Minimal eye candy, yes. But more than that, and it then becomes more eye candy than functionality. A warrior icon is functional. A 3D warrior model is eye candy. However, that 3D model is much more than is needed for functionality, and overall, it makes the game look very different from one which only uses icons.

By that reasoning we shouldnt even have animated units at all, since its more function than eye candy, to look at a static 2D image.

You may not want any eye candy at all (as you say) but if im in a little virtual world on a computer game, id rather be commanding animated units, than pushing 2D counters around.

	29-08-2005 07:59									#28
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graphics are fine, but I expect better from poly's artisans a few months after game release

	29-08-2005 11:54									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Dis these graphics look sufficient to me. http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy...ns.html?page=13

Those silly little things are mountains? These Civ IV guys need to vacation in the Rockies or Cascades...maybe they don't get out much? I got butt zits more awe inspiring than those!

Everything else looks good in that pic. Still like ROL's look better though.

	29-08-2005 12:26									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer Those silly little things are mountains? These Civ IV guys need to vacation in the Rockies or Cascades...maybe they don't get out much? I got butt zits more awe inspiring than those! Everything else looks good in that pic. Still like ROL's look better though.

What do you expect. They live in Maryland. They don't have mountains out there. they don't live in Oregon like you do.

And the desert has mountains too. I get so tired of civ games that think all deserts are flat. They've obviously never been to Las Vegas. Although CTP2 had a thing called desert mountains. the only game that had different types of mountains. The graphics weren't that hot though.