28-08-2005 22:48									#1
	Idea about "click it or ticket" (mandatory seat belt laws) Put an end to popups!

Recently, there were laws passed in most states in the US saying that you had to have your seat belt on or else you'd get a ticket. In Illinois, it was a law for a while, but it wasn't an offense that you could be pulled over for. Then, safety-nazis went out of control and said cops could pull you over for it.

I absolutely disagree with these laws. I do not wear my seat belt. Yes, I'm aware of the statistics involving deaths in accidents resulting from lack of seatbelts. I don't care.

I am opposed to laws that force people to do things for their own safety. IMO, America is supposed to be a free country, and that should include the freedom to die in a car accident if I want to.

Currently, many Illinois towns are debating banning smoking in all public places. I'm against this also (even though I hate smokers). The argument is, businesses will get more business if they outlaw smoking. Well if that is the case, don't make the law and let businesses decide for themselves. I mean, they'd have to be stupid to allow smoking if this is true.

But back to seat belts. My family recently bought a Toyota Highlander Hybrid. One of the features in this vehicle is that it beeps for like 15 seconds reminding you to put on your seat belt.

Here's an idea.

Instead of having these safety nazi laws giving people tickets for not buckling up, why not make a federal law forcing automobile manufactures to include an annoying thing that beeps until you buckle your seat belt?

Or better yet, make it so you can't shift from park or something.

That would force people to buckle their seat belts (or at the very least, force them to drive around with an annoying beep the whole time) without wasting police resources in a stupid effort pulling over people who don't buckle up. Police have better things to do... like arresting people for possession of small amounts of marijuana.

	28-08-2005 22:51									#2
	Put an end to popups!

I always wear my seat belt. And I think mandatory seat belt usage is dumb and invasive.

I think a law requiring manufacturers make cars that don't opperate unless your seat belt is on is much much worse though.

	28-08-2005 22:53									#3
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If people don't want to wear them... fine. However, they should be forced to admit it to the insurance companies so that only they pay higher rates and not eveybody who does wear them

	28-08-2005 22:56									#4
	Got spare money?

See that's actually a good idea.

	28-08-2005 23:00									#5
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When you think about it... it does make sense. Smokers pay a higher rate for life insurance, and bad drivers pay higher rates for car insurance. If people want to take a bigger chance while driving, they should be the ones to pay for that freedom

	28-08-2005 23:16									#6
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quote: Currently, many Illinois towns are debating banning smoking in all public places. I'm against this also (even though I hate smokers). The argument is, businesses will get more business if they outlaw smoking. Well if that is the case, don't make the law and let businesses decide for themselves. I mean, they'd have to be stupid to allow smoking if this is true.

Smoking in public violates my right to breathe clean air...

Actually, honestly, I couldn't care less if restaurants even had smoking sections (don't smoke myself but have never had a problem with people lighting up around me). But many people do get issues with smokers.

Sava, to give you a grasp of the magnitude of the smoking issue, Pine Bluff has banned smoking in public places. Pine Bluff's major demographic groups are rednecks and blacks, neither of whom are typically well-known for health concerns...similar legislation is proposed for a lot of cities in Arkansas. IMO, American health is falling apart and we'd do good to start somewhere at picking up the peices...

	28-08-2005 23:20									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Ming When you think about it... it does make sense. Smokers pay a higher rate for life insurance, and bad drivers pay higher rates for car insurance. If people want to take a bigger chance while driving, they should be the ones to pay for that freedom

I don't see how it applies to people's liability plans

	28-08-2005 23:24									#8
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Smoking in public violates my right to breathe clean air...

I should specify...

in Illinois, it's about banning smoking in resturaunts and bars...

but what I find interesting is that people are complaining about smoking, but yet, they get into their gas-guzzliing SUV which spews more poisonous gas in 5 seconds of operation than an entire pack of cigarettes.

If you want to ban something, try fossil fuels.


Also...

I should point out..

I'm not in favor of auto manufacturers installing these seat belt thingies that annoy you into buckling up. I'm just saying it would be a smarter way of getting people to buckle up.

	28-08-2005 23:25									#9
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell IMO, American health is falling apart and we'd do good to start somewhere at picking up the peices...

Then I guess that you would agree that nobody in the US should be allowed to serve any kind of food that is bad for your health... And that all cars should be banned because they polute the air... Polution is a far bigger danger than second hand smoke, and eating bad things is the biggest cause of health problems.

	28-08-2005 23:28									#10
	Put an end to popups!

two L's

	28-08-2005 23:29									#11
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No, you would guess wrong...

We can improve public health without any of those things...

But nice try

	28-08-2005 23:34									#12
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It costs the state money and time to clean up your shreded remains, put your damned seatbelt on so you die in one easily cleaned up piece.

	28-08-2005 23:35									#13
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You talk about the grasp of the "magnitude of the smoking issue"... and you seem to support it. Well, then you should start supporting the banning of all fossel fuels, because second hand smoke is kid stuff compared to that. And from a health stand point, bad eating habits is the worst problem facing health today...

So why are you harping on a small issue when far greater health issues are available

	28-08-2005 23:40									#14
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Sava, I don't feel this is a freedom issue.

You don't have the freedom of driving a car that is about to explode. You don't have the freedom to eat poison, even though you should.

Traffic has little to do with freedom and laws if you ask me, and if you don't want to wear a belt, fine, but don't expect to be treated in a hospital if you get smashed and dive through the windshield. Don't expect to get land from graveyard to be burried in.

It's a trade.

Oh, you can still drive without the belt. You get a ticket if you don't, but that's not forcign you to wear it.

Check out wikipedia.org and search for Darwin.

	28-08-2005 23:51									#15
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Ban me if you must, but to me it is the absolute height of stupidity to not only refuse to wear your seatbelt, but to be so proud of doing so.

	29-08-2005 00:03									#16
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It's already like that here. If you're caught without your seatbelt over here its like an instant $150 fine iirc.

Smoking is banned inside every single workplace as well.

The first one is quite sensible really. Its realised that most people are rather attached to their lives. Wearing a seatbelt helps save lives. Alot of people are stupid. Hence not wearing a seatbelt is illegal.

Smoking banned thing is all good too. Fresh Air

	29-08-2005 00:30									#17
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I have no problem with a ban on smoking indoors in publicly owned places. On the other hand, an owner of a business/establishment should be allowed to make his own decision on whether smoking is allowed. If there were such a big demand for it in bars, bars that outlawed smoking should be prospering, and most bars should be smoke free already... funny, they aren't. Now people want to make that decision for the owners... and force it down their throat, even if it hurts their business. It should be up to the owner... and employees can decide whether they want that enviornment. It's like people that build homes next to an airport, then complain about the noise. THE AIRPORT WAS THERE... WHAT DID YOU EXPECT. People that have a problem with second hand smoke shouldn't plan their career path on working in a bar.

	29-08-2005 00:50									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Ban me if you must, but to me it is the absolute height of stupidity to not only refuse to wear your seatbelt, but to be so proud of doing so.

didn't say I was proud...

I just don't like it...

it's uncomfortable

and quite frankly

I want to die

	29-08-2005 00:58									#19
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Seats belts not only protect you, they protect the people around you. If you are t-boned and are not wearing a seat belt, you become a human missile, capable of killing anyone whom you impact. Furthermore, if you are a driver and lose control of your vehical, a seat belt will keep you planted in your seat, making it much more likely you can regain control of your vehical, instead of having centrifical force fling you away and leaving your car out of control.

Mandatory seat belt laws protect us from you. If you don't want to drive responsibly, don't drive at all..

	29-08-2005 01:12									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Ming If people don't want to wear them... fine. However, they should be forced to admit it to the insurance companies so that only they pay higher rates and not eveybody who does wear them

	29-08-2005 01:12									#21
	Remove this text

Welcome to 1984 (seat belt law in austria)

Come on, not putting your seat belt on is like submitting yourself to the Darwin Award. This has nothing to do with freedom or safety nazism. A seat belt is already installed in every car, you just need to use it.

	29-08-2005 01:13									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Sava didn't say I was proud... I just don't like it... it's uncomfortable and quite frankly I want to die

You're spoiled and "not so clever"

	29-08-2005 01:16									#23
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa You're spoiled and stupid...

And that isn't a personal attack how

Discuss the topic... don't insult people.

	29-08-2005 01:18									#24
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

well...

	29-08-2005 01:23									#25
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How am I spoiled?

My parents gave me a roof over my head, food in my belly, and that's about it. Everything else in life I worked for.

	29-08-2005 01:38									#26
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Your attitude is inacceptable for me

	29-08-2005 01:40									#27
	Remove this text

your misuse of prefixes is unacceptable

	29-08-2005 01:41									#28
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doh

	29-08-2005 01:45									#30
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no clothes? must of sucked going to school naked!

people who suicide themselves in traffic are major league dicks.

Anyway, you have to wear seatbelts in airplanes too when the sign is on. I know, it's the regulations and all that. Just like traffic.