30-08-2005 23:29									#1
	New statistic! 20% of Americans think the universe is geocentric! Suffering from ads?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/s...d726261&ei=5070

The first bit of the article builds up the guy. Then it reveals some of his data:

quote: Dr. Miller's data reveal some yawning gaps in basic knowledge. American adults in general do not understand what molecules are (other than that they are really small). Fewer than a third can identify DNA as a key to heredity. Only about 10 percent know what radiation is. One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth, an idea science had abandoned by the 17th century.

Then it goes onto a bit of his bio, and why he thinks science education sucks, namely high school education isn't great, party because of its reliance on property taxes.

Anyway:

20% of adult Amis think that the sun revolves around the earth? Depressing, innit?

It's no wonder evolution has such trouble getting a fair shake in some regions.

	30-08-2005 23:33									#2
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Jon Miller looks a lot older than I expected.

	30-08-2005 23:37									#3
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You know, this country is ina lot of trouble.

	30-08-2005 23:41									#4
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it depends on how you look at it

	30-08-2005 23:42									#5
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No! You think?

	30-08-2005 23:52									#6
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A lot of this depends on exactly how those stupid surveys pose the questions. Curiously, we're never given any information about this, just some useless piece of 'sensational' statistic.

IMO, the really stupid people are the ones who actually form an opinion of the surrounding world based on half-truths like this.

	30-08-2005 23:55									#7
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I'm not sure you got the subtle manner in which I posted the article.

	30-08-2005 23:55									#8
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Winston calling a PhD teaching at Northwestern stupid.

	30-08-2005 23:57									#9
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Jon Miller looks a lot older than I expected.

I wonder if he says "Jon Miller" after every time he speaks.

	31-08-2005 00:00									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed I'm not sure you got the subtle manner in which I posted the article.

I'm not talking about the article, but how the questions were posed.

And another thing, who could say that those results couldn't be duplicated in most any country in the Western world?

	31-08-2005 00:01									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Winston And another thing, who could say that those results couldn't be duplicated in most any country in the Western world?

I dunno. Y'all in generally seem a lot more informed about things.

	31-08-2005 00:02									#12
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I'm not sure you're referring to me, but I was implying that the OP might not have been completely serious about the article.

	31-08-2005 00:03									#13
	Re: New statistic! 20% of Americans think the universe is geocentric! Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed : quote: Dr. Miller's data reveal some yawning gaps in basic knowledge. American adults in general do not understand what molecules are (other than that they are really small). Fewer than a third can identify DNA as a key to heredity. Only about 10 percent know what radiation is. One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth, an idea science had abandoned by the 17th century.

sun earth, earth sun, Something revolves around something, whatever. This is not about copernicanism, its about Attention deficit disorder, or just ordinary folks not bothering to listen to closely to pollsters.

	31-08-2005 00:04									#14
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I don't see any sublty, Q³. It looks like a stright forward endorsment.

	31-08-2005 00:04									#15
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hmm so if I read the article correctly, they didn't say the UNIVERSE was geocentric-- they merely thought the sun revolved around the earth-- was there other material that indicated more?

I think that this is a belief that we can agree could be shared by anyone that has not been educated in anyway otherwise since it would fit their daily experience. I am not really shocked at this result and doubt that the holders of this view have much opinion as to the how the other planets and stars move in this scenario.


I have also noticed that you can get 20% of most survey samples to agree with lots of outlandish things. I have often wondered if that many people are really that uninformed or whether 10-15% of the population are just jokesters .

	31-08-2005 00:06									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed I'm not sure you're referring to me, but I was implying that the OP might not have been completely serious about the article.

Ah, I didn't get that Q Cubed, you're right.

My mom believes in reincarnation, gnomes, fairies and beautiful music playing in outer space. That's her. Since she's in no position of authority on these or any related subjects, what does it really matter?

	31-08-2005 00:07									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber I think that this is a belief that we can agree could be shared by anyone that has not been educated in anyway otherwise since it would fit their daily experience. .

given how many people in my community are recent arrivals from countries where the most minimal education is NOT universal, id be surprised if they were all good copernicans.

	31-08-2005 00:10									#18
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark given how many people in my community are recent arrivals from countries where the most minimal education is NOT universal, id be surprised if they were all good copernicans.

and some might have even more exotic beliefs that do not involve revolution at all

	31-08-2005 00:13									#19
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Counter-revolutionaries!?!

	31-08-2005 00:15									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Winston Ah, I didn't get that Q Cubed, you're right. My mom believes in reincarnation, gnomes, fairies and beautiful music playing in outer space. That's her. Since she's in no position of authority on these or any related subjects, what does it really matter?

Oh, but she is. With her vote.

	31-08-2005 00:18									#21
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Well, I'll try my best to steer her right next time there's a referendum on gnomes.

	31-08-2005 00:18									#22
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Oh, but she is. With her vote.

"Royal Canadian Navy attempts to retake island, is defeated by gnomes and fairies. More at eleven"

	31-08-2005 00:21									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Winston Well, I'll try my best to steer her right next time there's a referendum on gnomes.

Think about it, Winston.

In a modern democracy where public policy is often shaped by public attitudes, isn't a well-informed citizenry a vital piece of the puzzle?

I'm not asking for a nation of experts, but a certain amount of scientific literacy is essential...

	31-08-2005 00:24									#24
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The Earth is the centre of the Universe, or rather everywhere is the centre of the universe, or should that be nowhere. The wrongness of the statement is not really a problem as its all perspective until you start qualifying what you mean..

	31-08-2005 00:25									#25
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KH,

Sorry, I don't think there's any connection. Views on general politics are determined by different things.

And tread carefully now. I'm sure you wouldn't want to advocate against democracy as we know it.

	31-08-2005 00:26									#26
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In a related story, my older sister recently asked me if humans hunted dinosaurs into extinction.

	31-08-2005 00:28									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Winston KH, Sorry, I don't think there's any connection. Views on general politics are determined by different things.

Huh? Yes, obviously who you will vote for is not just determined by a party's stance on a given scientific issue.

This doesn't mean that the public's attitudes don't make a difference. They do..

It feels like you're being deliberately obtuse here.

	31-08-2005 00:29									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Dauphin In a related story, my older sister recently asked me if humans hunted dinosaurs into extinction.

My mother didn't think dinosaurs actually existed until she was 30. She thought that the stories she'd heard about them were akin to myths about dragons and unicorns...

	31-08-2005 00:31									#29
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I don't see any sublty, Q3. It looks like a stright forward endorsment.

I suppose it does look like that. Even if the title is misleading towards what up to 20% of Americans may believe.

	31-08-2005 00:31									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Winston And tread carefully now. I'm sure you wouldn't want to advocate against democracy as we know it.

Why would you think I was? Advocating a better scientific education for the public = advocating a coup by the scientists?