31-08-2005 00:07									#1
	Sid Meier Interview Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

In an interview posted at GameSpy (http://xbox.gamespy.com/xbox/pirates-/644806p1.html), Sid mentions two new projects:

GameSpy: What are you working on next?

Sid Meier: (smiles) You know I can't tell you. I will say that I'm working on two things, though. If everything goes right, you should see them in '06 and '07.

Could one of these be SMAC2? We can hope!

	31-08-2005 00:42									#2
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Yeah, more lost nightsleep

	31-08-2005 01:04									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Petek Sid Meier: (smiles) You know I can't tell you. I will say that I'm working on two things, though. If everything goes right, you should see them in '06 and '07. Could one of these be SMAC2? We can hope!

cIV released in 3-4 months, another game released in '06, and another game in '07. Sounds like a really aggressive schedule. If one of these is SMAC2, then I'd hope that they take their time and do it right.
And of course with the approach Firaxis took with cIV (1 part old, 1 part new, 1 part tried and true) what exactly would get thrown in as far as options in a SMAC2, anyways? I'd personally like for Firaxis to get and incorporate the feedback from cIV as far as what worked and what didn't, and then build a SMAC2 (meaning that I'm opting for a SMAC2 to be the '07 project, at the earliest).

Regardless, thanx for digging this up for us!


D

	31-08-2005 11:28									#4
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I hope he didn't mean expansion packs for cIV.

Perhaps we should start doing a SMAC 2 list? I know there were threads with suggestions before, but should we start the real thing now? Anyone in?

Last edited by Illuminatus on 31-08-2005 at 11:44

	31-08-2005 12:38									#5
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* binTravkin predicts an incoming wishpost strike..

	31-08-2005 13:13									#6
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i should go back and top the last one

if smac2 comes out in only 2 years or so ish, just how good could it be? im thinking we dont want any corperations messing around with smac-if we had the skillz we could do it ourselves like VERY good games like Enemy Territory that was made opensource and is the best FPS since UT

but i must be the voice of cynicism once again and say that wishposts do nothing else than give everyone a legit +1...they do not have the time to read them.ive participated in making a game before,and i know that such activites as reading through forums became ignored except for peeps that wanted to or had the job of idea sifting...

	31-08-2005 13:53									#7
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quote: Originally posted by binTravkin * binTravkin predicts an incoming wishpost strike..

We already have a wishlist thread and this is not what I meant . Wishes differ from sensible suggestions.

Firaxis did ask for input from fans on several occasions. In case you are not familiar with list for cIV, here is a usefull link . It may be wishful thinking, but in case Firaxis decides to make SMAC 2, they should listen to ideas from a very faithful community.

Cataphract887, the purpose of the list is to avoid need for developers to read through countless "I want better AI and more factions!!!" posts on forums. If we prepared our suggestions in an organised way for Firaxis, they could certainly dedicate some time to read the list and perhaps incorporate some of the ideas presented.

It may be wishful thinking but would you prefer wasting a chance than using it?

	31-08-2005 14:00									#8
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Good old Wolf:ET. How I love the Quake 3 engine in all its buggy, trickjumping glory.

Splash Damage have a sequel coming out in the next year, Quake Wars: enemy territory. However, I'm concerned that its not going to be very good. Firstly, its in the Doom 3 engine (lol will everything be dark? oll etc) and secondly they've taken an ambitious route with all the new soldier classes and I'm not sure they can balance them well. I think it'll just lead to Covert Ops syndrome where low skilled players take low-utility classes and fail to be a team asset.

But anyway, SMAC2. One of Sids projects will be an Civ4 expansion. I'd give the other one the chance of being SMAC2 50/50 at the most.

	31-08-2005 14:03									#9
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Well if the poll results are of any value to them...

	31-08-2005 14:37									#10
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quote: ataphract887, the purpose of the list is to avoid need for developers to read through countless "I want better AI and more factions!!!" posts on forums. If we prepared our suggestions in an organised way for Firaxis, they could certainly dedicate some time to read the list and perhaps incorporate some of the ideas presented.

ok. but i know that by the time we got to the stage of creating the game,there was virtually no way i was going to deviate from the path i wanted.only if it was a very very good suggestion would i implement it.maybe it would be different if it had been for money,but i viewed other peoples opinions as intruding upon my personal vision...but maybe firaxis dont see it that way. certainly it would make sense $wise to rip off peoples ideas for free, but i find that companies very rarely run by logic and sense.

	31-08-2005 15:09									#11
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Well, if there was a person or a group who were approved by Apolyton SMACX community to compile their "wishes" into detailed overview with no repeating of the same "I want better AI etc", then they might take us pretty serious, wouldn't they?

	31-08-2005 15:18									#12
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only if they recieved it by mail or fax. and i mean PHYSICAL mail. then they might take us seriously. but still,without playing their game,i dont see that we could provide much meaningfull data. sure id give it a shot. but i have a hard time veiwing this optimisticly

quote: I think it'll just lead to Covert Ops syndrome where low skilled players take low-utility classes and fail to be a team asset.

ill have to take a look at it,i havnt heard anything.im not to active on et boards

	31-08-2005 15:24									#13
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I disagree with the mail/fax thing although it could be organised as well.

If we post a closed thread where all the wishes have been collected here, in this same forum and have a discussion thread for that then we can get it to the point where the ideas dry out.

At that point we could invoke some of the Firaxis stuff registered here on Poly to kindly take a look.
It won't take much of their dear time to be convinced that the effort should be awarded or at least read through.

And in the end I actually think mailing or faxing them might be idea even worse.
They must have received hundreds of crap mails which went straight to trash before.

And what's the most important - if it's on web and people approve it by voting that "yes, I would like to see all or many or at least some of these things in SMAC 2", they would have some kind of approval, like a petition.
A simple mail or fax can never do that.

	31-08-2005 15:51									#14
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well, i meant submit the finalzied 'list' as you might call it that way. of course intitiate with email\forums

you must understand to people that do not use forums,they are meaningless and the information contained within is largely inaccessible to them.my dad,for example,is very high tech and he runs the mail server i use,and is doing professional site desighning for buyer-to-seller connects..

but he dosnt seem to understand the amount of freewhare content and how much free flow of data goes on. the other members in the family are lucky to grasp the fact that yall are actually real people

	31-08-2005 16:38									#15
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Well, still the fact remains that most fan mails go to trash.
Also the fact remains all of them have emails.
Also there's the fact of several Firaxians aboard Apolyton and aware of this free flow.
This won't be the first time Apolyton helps Firaxis.
The guys know the thing and if provided by a link and visible proof that it's not only some fanaticians putting together what they want, but the entire SMAC community, they will copy the info where needed.
Things like this have been going on not only at Firaxis.

Two other very good examples are Paradox and Blizzard who both rate user feedback very highly and look what they do - their games is something people really want!

	31-08-2005 16:56									#16
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basicly my thoughts in the 1st place,tho not expressed that way.well nothing need more be said,but who does it and when?

if blizzard announced smac2 id think id have an orgasm-- those guys rate 6.0 on a 1-5 chart of consumer satisfation with me. now if only warcraft3\wow where good games...

	31-08-2005 16:58									#17
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I believe Soren read at least part of list for Civilization IV, did he not? I also know that certain Firaxis members do browse Apolyton.
What is more important, Apolyton community is taken seriously by Firaxis (well they even dedicated easter eggs to us in CivIII). They won't simply delete a well written compiled list of suggestions from an entire community, but task someone to read and see if some of the ideas can be used or introduced into their project.

	31-08-2005 18:06									#18
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quote: now if only warcraft3\wow where good games...

Well, there are different needs/wishes, so different games are made.
Some other person might call you fool for saying so..

And QFT Illuminatus, after we have some more of the chaotical discussion we've had this far and after we've tried out cIV and had some opinions as well, we can compile that list.

The basic reason why cIV is a prerequisite is that if it's really so good, then SMAC 2 would most probably be built on the same (or a bit improved) engine.

	31-08-2005 18:16									#19
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Hm, maybe I am currently unable to think straight, but please help me here.

What would be the major differences between a future "Civilization" and a future "Alpha Centauri"?

Should Civilization IV be able to emulate a general Alpha Centauri environment (graphics, gameplay, complexity & balance), I would be perfectly happy with an Alpha Centauri add-on or "mod" for Civilization IV. I would perhaps even settle for just the balance and complexity...

What am I missing here?!?

	31-08-2005 18:23									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Illuminatus I believe Soren read at least part of list for Civilization IV, did he not?

After the Civ'ers submitted their list Soren posted in the cIV forum thanking them for their submission.

quote: Originally posted by Illuminatus What is more important, Apolyton community is taken seriously by Firaxis. They won't simply delete a well written compiled list of suggestions from an entire community, but task someone to read and see if some of the ideas can be used or introduced into their project.

Hopefully they will also look at the overall scope of the items listed and get an idea of the direction the targeted community is leaning, as well.

quote: Originally posted by binTravkin The basic reason why cIV is a prerequisite is that if it's really so good, then SMAC 2 would most probably be built on the same (or a bit improved) engine.

Or possibly SMAC2 would simply be one of the "expansion packs" to cIV that bT thought Sid may be refering to as far as the '06 and '07 projects are concerned.....


D

	31-08-2005 18:30									#21
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Rubin - with the moddability Firaxis describe for the new cIV engine it seems that they've developed a game-building application, something overheads most existing game-development routines, at the time being very often seen in Web development and other less complex IT operations.

You just feed it data and it returns behaviour.
If you want to change some base behaviour, you do dome coding on the core, but generally you can easily and fast create any number of games (of the TBS genre at his particular case) just by creating the input datasets and accompanying graphics.

	31-08-2005 18:47									#22
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quote: you do dome coding on the core,

yeah i cant wait to start messing with the games base. the real question is,do i start playing 1st or start modding? i did a mod for our LAN group before i even played civ3c.

im going for a total mod,im changing the fabric of the universe(in cIV\TBS terms anyhow). i have some top secret ideas on citys and stuff and some map innovations that should make alot more sense than the current model,and it seems to be unique idea as well. havnt seen any other TBS using it yet

dang it,now i just want cIV even more atm when i think about it

	31-08-2005 19:19									#23
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I might be happy with good civ4 mod, however my past experience with civ3 is not that good. for example, while it was possible to do a specialist making additional shields for a city (engineer, iirc) I could not make specialist making food (farmer).

Will the intended scripting ability allow for really innovative capabilities of units? Will we be able to build some new kind of crawlers? new chassis types with possible complex structure, even more than it is now in SMACX?

Civ4 eliminated pollution. Will I be able to script it back in? Make then maps of planet with marked regions of different levels of water pollution? levels of air pollution? possibly more environmental stuff?

Will it be close to the point where it will be easier for me write my own code instead of solving problems of adapting existing civ4 engine to what I want to achieve?

	31-08-2005 20:08									#24
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It might not meet all your needs, but still there's nothing even half as helpful, if we interpret the news correctly.

	31-08-2005 20:31									#25
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According to news, nearly everything is possible, but changing fundamental mechanics would require a lot of time and knowledge.

	01-09-2005 09:11									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Cataphract887 yeah i cant wait to start messing with the games base. the real question is,do i start playing 1st or start modding?

I'd say if you plan on becoming a Creator then play the game first, as then you will be able to sense how the overall underlying scheme/ mechanics of the game work. Creating then becomes much easier from there.

quote: Originally posted by Cataphract887 im going for a total mod,im changing the fabric of the universe(in cIV\TBS terms anyhow). i have some top secret ideas on citys and stuff and some map innovations that should make alot more sense than the current model,and it seems to be unique idea as well. havnt seen any other TBS using it yet

Sounds like good stuff! Any chance you'd be interested in helping out with a mod of cIV to emulate basic SMAC(X) as well?

quote: Originally posted by Cataphract887 dang it,now i just want cIV even more atm when i think about it

Right now wanting is probably not the same as having: if the game were ready, they'd release it. Its just not ready yet.....


D

	03-09-2005 12:32									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Cataphract887 but i must be the voice of cynicism once again and say that wishposts do nothing else than give everyone a legit +1...they do not have the time to read them.ive participated in making a game before,and i know that such activites as reading through forums became ignored except for peeps that wanted to or had the job of idea sifting...

I suggest you to ask binTravkin about user-developer communication.

This discussion won't die. We should make an outline of categories for suggestions.

	03-09-2005 16:37									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Darsnan I'd say if you plan on becoming a Creator then play the game first, as then you will be able to sense how the overall underlying scheme/ mechanics of the game work. Creating then becomes much easier from there.

just joking a bit there....i will play before editing.but...i am in the creator role for a few games.its nothing new to me...

quote: Sounds like good stuff! Any chance you'd be interested in helping out with a mod of cIV to emulate basic SMAC(X) as well?

dunno.my skills at c++ etc are very primitive. but my own editing would certainly produce a swing towards smac mechanics

quote: Right now wanting is probably not the same as having: if the game were ready, they'd release it. Its just not ready yet..... D

wanting it is not the same as wanting it NOW and unfinished,which i never said

	05-09-2005 08:26									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Cataphract887 wanting it is not the same as wanting it NOW and unfinished,which i never said

Felix Cactus'd.

Oh, and the answer to the trivia question we were discussing this morning is "Oliver".

Anyways, the more I think about what Sid originally said why the more I think Firaxis is coming out with 2 "Expansion Packs" for cIV. One could be SMACX2....
Reasons for making me think this:

1. cIV is touted as being highly modable. What better way to show this than to completely replace the base cIV game (which starts around 40,00BC?) with a game based in a different solar system (which starts around 2100AD?).

2. SMAC(X), although lauded as a great game, was not that commercially successful. Since a sequel would probably fare maybe as well financially, then making it an "expansion pack" instead would mean that if the hardcore SMAC'ers wanted it, they'd have to pay approximately $50US for cIV, then another $40US for the SMACX expansion pack, making it more feasible financially speaking for Firaxis.

Anyways, my $0.02 on the subject.


D

	05-09-2005 11:27									#30
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I agree with Darsnan. One thing we know about Sid, is that he will put together something that he wants to do, irrespective of the market considerations, if (and only if) he can do it with minimal cost. Case in point, SimGolf.

If cIV is so easily moddable, putting together a SMAC-flavored expansion should meet that criteria, as the two major departures from civ that SMAC brought (social engineering and custom units) are already part of the code-base for cIV.