02-09-2005 05:27									#1
	Treaty Drafter Needed Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

We will need to write an official version of a treaty very soon. We need one or more people who have an interest and a flair for these things.

Please voice your willingness to be involved with this activity here.

We'll need to be writing the treaty with CBR on Sunday through Tuesday. I do not want to make them wait any longer than Tuesday.

	02-09-2005 06:00									#2
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Basically, we are trading BW for alpha;

50 turn NAP;

Screenshot trade;

the one tile border is in effect, but we should mention it anyway;

Any curraghs can pass through cultural borders with prior permission.

Last edited by Krill on 05-09-2005 at 19:08

	02-09-2005 06:08									#3
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We need a Lawyer!

Togas!

	02-09-2005 06:15									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Krill anything I missed?

We should agree about share information on other civs... It's a good thing to us, because they are planning curraghs soon, as said by Wosret. IIRC, BigFree proposed it.

	02-09-2005 06:15									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Krill anything I missed?

They want a little boat free to sail clause in the 1 tile borders.

	02-09-2005 06:28									#6
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I don't see any problem.

	02-09-2005 19:23									#7
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If we exchange info about the other nations we meet, then the boat may pass but if they will not give us that info it is not allowed to pass.

	02-09-2005 19:55									#8
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Hmm. So you are saying that any info gathered by any CBR curraghs that pass us should be given to us? Only got one question. How can we verify that with evidence?

I mean, CBR could meet another civ, but they could just tell us that they have met no one, and lie to us. The only way to verify would be to meet that civ ourselves.

---

Now that I think about it, we could try to use this as a get out clause. It would not work 100% of the time, but it is still a possibility. Add the clause, and if we find that CBR have been lying to us, then we could invade and say that the deal was broken by CBR as they failed to pass on the info.

What do the people think of this then?

	02-09-2005 21:54									#9
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Seems that we already have our excuse. Great idea!

	02-09-2005 21:59									#10
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I don't know if we want to complicate things like that.

We ask for boat info, they ask for something back, etc.

I'd like to avoid any regular exchange of map shots (where it could end up) so that we do not have to show them the iron until we are safely settled on our own source(s).

	02-09-2005 22:00									#11
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Interesting... Purposely sign a horribly broken and unenforceable treaty so it's already long dead by the time you get around to attacking.

	02-09-2005 22:01									#12
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oh, that is why I suggested we only ask for info about other civs, and not map info (so all we want to know is that Civ X is about 25 tiles south west of our capital, and over a chort sea crossing).

	02-09-2005 23:35									#13
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Arnelos, you seem to be perfect for this job...

	05-09-2005 05:33									#14
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OK. We need to get moving on this.

Who wants to put CBR's proposals and the screen shot swap into workable language?

	05-09-2005 05:52									#15
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This should be in English, and I'm not the guy for this job.

	05-09-2005 18:29									#16
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We have 13:30 until our chat. Any news about that draft?

	05-09-2005 19:25									#17
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quote: On Turn 25, CBR will send Alphabet unaccepted to Team ACS. ACS will reply with Broze working, and will accept the deal. On turn 26, CBR will accept the deal, and the techs will be traded. --- As of Turn 25, there will be a No Aggression Pact between the teams of CBR and ACS. Neither team shall attack the other party, and no unit, except the curragh, may enter to within one tile of the other teams cultural borders. - Not sure what else to say. --- No later than Turn 26, the Teams of CBR and ACS will trade screenshots of all explored lands, including the land inside of each teams borders. All resources, and terrain improvements shall be shown, but the production and research items, treasury and slider settings shall not be shown, as these are not part of the map. --- Either team may enter the other teams cultural borders with Curraghs, and no other unit, and only if two turns prior notice is given And infomation as to the whereabouts of the teams of BAT, CGN, CDZ, and PAL, shall be issued to the other party once the non-treaty members have been met. - Not sure if this is required or wanted, but if it is, I am sure it could be worded better.

That is the basis. Change it however you want.

	05-09-2005 19:31									#18
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Btw, they asked for some kind of register of this contract at UN. This can be added, I'm sure. Has someone a problem with that?

	05-09-2005 19:33									#19
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I'll have a problem if it is made public. If only the admins are made aware of it though,

	05-09-2005 19:37									#20
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No, no public... It's a secret agreement, by its proper nature. I'm sure the admins can archive this with their chancel. After all, they are judges or referees, aren’t they?

	05-09-2005 23:59									#21
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In order to formalize our friendship and our desire to maintain peaceful relations, the nations of Brazucas and Apolyton hereby agree to the following treaty:

• Alphabet and bronze working shall be traded between our two nations. On turn 25, Brazucas will send alphabet unaccepted to Apolyton. Apolyton will put bronze working on the table and accept the deal. On turn 26, Brazucas will accept the deal, thus completing the trade.
  
  
• As of turn 25, a fifty turn non-aggression pact between the nations of Brazucas and Apolyton shall go into effect. Neither team shall attack the other, and no unit (except for the curragh) may enter within one tile of the other nation's cultural borders without their consent.
  
  
• On turn 26, the nations of Brazucas and Apolyton will trade unaltered screenshots of all explored lands which includes the land inside of each nation's borders. All resources and terrain improvements shall be shown, but the production, current research and time, treasury (current gold and gold per turn), and slider settings shall not be shown, either cut out in a screenshot program or blacked out.
  
  Alternate:
• On turn 26, the nations of Brazucas and Apolyton will trade unaltered screenshots of all explored lands which includes the land inside of each nation's borders. All resources and terrain improvements shall be shown, however, the lower right information box shall not be shown, either cut out in a screenshot program or blacked out.
  
  
• Information as to the whereabouts of the other nations on this world shall be issued to the other party once the foreign nations have been met.

	06-09-2005 00:54									#22
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Excellent, RM.

I like the first option for SS trade.

	06-09-2005 00:59									#23
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Great job, RM!
First option for SS trade, it's more detailed.

	06-09-2005 01:19									#24
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Possible section 2

quote: 2. As of turn 25, a fifty turn non-aggression pact between the nations of Brazucas and Apolyton shall go into effect. Neither team shall attack the other, and no unit (except for the curragh) may enter within one tile of the other nation's cultural borders without their consent. 2a. The non-aggression pact may be extended at the end of fifty turns for a further twenty-five turns if agreed to by both the nations of Brazucas and Apolyton. 2b. The non-agression pact may be extended as in 2a at the end of each period as they occur if agreed to by both the nations of Brazucas and Apolyton

Alternative...

quote: As of turn 25 the nations of Brazucas and Apolyton agree that an indefinite peace exists between them. It is further specified that the peace shall exist for a minimum of 50 turns. Neither team shall attack the other, and no unit (except for the curragh) may enter within one tile of the other nation's cultural borders without their consent.

Could that get us out of extentions?

	06-09-2005 01:26									#25
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I prefer the origianl, as the second lacks any way of extending the peace. They might catch it.

	06-09-2005 01:29									#26
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Could that get us out of extentions?

Almost! But it's good enough...
@ alternative section 2. The first one is too... attaching, and it's close to be a locked alliance... More than I would like

	06-09-2005 01:44									#27
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atleast add a clause about extending the peace.

	06-09-2005 02:06									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Krill atleast add a clause about extending the peace.

:b
Agreed.

	06-09-2005 02:16									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Krill atleast add a clause about extending the peace.

Then just go with the first.

	06-09-2005 02:59									#30
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I'd rather we be a bit more vague with the extention clause. Perhaps add something like "negotiations to extend the treaty may take place pending the termination of the original deal".