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VJ is offline VJ
Prince
Helsinki
Dec 2001
time: 07:31
  Old Post 06-09-2005 05:47
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People trying search serious discussions from Playboy magazine instead of newspapers

Ever since the Schiavo thread where he posted blatant lies after blatant lies without any shame, I've always considered Drake Tungsten as a Bushbot. I'm surprised that someone still finds time to argue or flame him, considering the chances of him changing his mind about Bush.

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
Prince
is one way of saying it, though I prefer "mensch"
Sep 2000
time: 07:31
  Old Post 06-09-2005 06:10
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quote:
Originally posted by OzzyKP


Actually the majority of chief justices were never regular supreme court justices first. I think I heard 10 out of 16 were first appointed to be CJ. Or somehting like that. Its the clear majority of cases. Rehnquist, being elevated from regular justice to CJ was in the minority.


Yeah, elevation is the exception, not the rule, and the Chief Justice position is regularly extended to a prominent politician. Earl Warren is the most recent example in that vein; the most famous example is Taft (Charles Evans Hughes, GOP presidential candidate in 1916 and SecState under Harding and Coolige, is another). If Renquist had died on Clinton's watch, there was a decent possibility that Clinton would have appoint Mario Cuomo as CJ.

The man I pity here is Roberts. Can you imagine having to be Scalia's nominal boss in these circumstances?

Joseph is offline Joseph
Prince
Ca. USA
Feb 2000
time: 21:31
  Old Post 06-09-2005 06:38
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It doen't matter who gets appointed.

Earl Warren. A very Conservative Rep. Gov of Calif.

Appointed to SC. Make CJ of SC and becomes the biggest liberal of the last century on the SC.

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
Prince
is one way of saying it, though I prefer "mensch"
Sep 2000
time: 07:31
  Old Post 06-09-2005 06:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Joseph
It doen't matter who gets appointed.

Earl Warren. A very Conservative Rep. Gov of Calif.

Appointed to SC. Make CJ of SC and becomes the biggest liberal of the last century on the SC.


The example of Warren's ideological 180 is famous, but it's hard to think of another CJ who fits that pattern. The one example hardly proves that it doesn't matter who gets appointed.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:31
  Old Post 06-09-2005 07:45
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Souter.

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
Prince
is one way of saying it, though I prefer "mensch"
Sep 2000
time: 07:31
  Old Post 06-09-2005 07:57
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Souter.


And Souter is Chief Justice...where? A Harry Turtledove novel?

In fairness, it is true that the ideological change of heart that Joseph was describing happens nore often to associate justices; Souter, Stevens, Blackmun, Brennan, and Black are all good examples of justices who turned out more liberal that their appointing prez thought they would be; White and maybe Breyer are examples of the opposite. But it rarely happens with a CJ.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:31
  Old Post 06-09-2005 08:17
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Interesting turn on things with nominating Roberts as CJ. It seems like with two openings on the bench, Bush is pegging Roberts are Rehnquist's successor, which may leave the door open for Gonzales (ie, the moderate to replace O'Conner).

Possible, but perhaps unlikely.

Anyway, the CJ really isn't that important of a position compared to the rest. Really, all the justices have basically the same power, the CJ just has a tiny bit more, but not so much to make much of a difference.

Winston is offline Winston
King
Danmark
Mar 1999
time: 06:31
  Old Post 06-09-2005 08:48
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He leads the conferences, can alter the way in which judges' opinions are heard during conferences, decides who writes majority rulings and can heavily influence the criteria for which cases the court should hear. I'd say that alone is a fair amount of additional power.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:31
  Old Post 06-09-2005 08:52
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No, it really isn't.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:31
  Old Post 06-09-2005 09:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Anyway, the CJ really isn't that important of a position compared to the rest. Really, all the justices have basically the same power, the CJ just has a tiny bit more, but not so much to make much of a difference.
He has the cooler title.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:31
  Old Post 06-09-2005 09:56
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Well, and Rehnny had those stripes . And the court gets to be known as the CJ's court, even if his views aren't in the majority (like CJ Burger).

Really all he gets to do is some organizational stuff. He picks who speaks next in the conferences and gets to decide who writes the majority opinion, if he's in that majority (who amazingly enough is usually the guy who has the most justices in the majority supporting his theory ).

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
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  Old Post 06-09-2005 10:03
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Well the Chief Justice does choose the composition of the Intelligence courts, right?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:31
  Old Post 06-09-2005 10:11
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I just had to look it up (I've never heard of such a thing before), and apparently so.

Though you'd think the CJ would have to do it with the DoJ or some other federal agency. The CJ probably wouldn't know who the district judges were (especially if he'd never been a district judge before)!

Hmm.. perhaps that specific reason is why Bush tagged Roberts for the job. Roberts, in at least one opinion, has been very pro-President in the WoT. Scalia, on the other hand, hasn't (see Hamdi)

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:31
  Old Post 06-09-2005 10:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I just had to look it up (I've never heard of such a thing before), and apparently so.
I'd heard it over the radio today myself. Don't feel bad.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:31
  Old Post 06-09-2005 10:31 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by VJ
People trying search serious discussions from Playboy magazine instead of newspapers


NPR confirmed it.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:31
  Old Post 06-09-2005 10:37
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quote:
I'm surprised that someone still finds time to argue or flame him, considering the chances of him changing his mind about Bush.


You're right. I won't change my mind on Bush; I never voted for him and I never will...

Sikander is offline Sikander
King
Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:31
  Old Post 06-09-2005 14:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
No, it really isn't.


When he's in the majority he decides who writes the opinion, which can have a major impact on what principles are carried forward from the decision. I'd say that is a fair amount of additional power assuming that he's going to be in the majority most of the time.

Bosh is offline Bosh
Emperor
Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
time: 00:31
  Old Post 06-09-2005 17:53
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quote:
Originally posted by VJ
People trying search serious discussions from Playboy magazine instead of newspapers

Ever since the Schiavo thread where he posted blatant lies after blatant lies without any shame, I've always considered Drake Tungsten as a Bushbot. I'm surprised that someone still finds time to argue or flame him, considering the chances of him changing his mind about Bush.

He's much more of an anti-liberal troll than a Bushbot, I doubt he has any special fondness for Bush...

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:31
  Old Post 06-09-2005 20:05
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quote:
Rehnquist's legacy doesn't measure up

By Geoffrey R. Stone
Published September 6, 2005

What was William Rehnquist's legacy as a Justice of the Supreme Court? Many people will address that question in the days and weeks to come. Here is a straightforward analysis of his record in cases involving the 1st Amendment's "freedom of speech, or of the press." In short, Justice Rehnquist showed no proper regard for the most fundamental right in the United States Constitution.

In his more than 30 years on the Supreme Court, Rehnquist participated in 259 decisions involving these freedoms. In these cases, Rehnquist voted to support the 1st Amendment claim only 20 percent of the time. In these same cases, the other justices with whom he sat (Blackmun, Brennan, Breyer, Burger, Douglas, Ginsburg, Kennedy, Marshall, O'Connor, Powell, Scalia, Souter, Stephens, Stewart, Thomas and White) voted to uphold the 1st Amendment claim 53 percent of the time. Thus, Rehnquist's colleagues were 2.6 times more likely than Rehnquist to hold a law in violation of "the freedom of speech, or of the press."

But this only scratches the surface. Even the Supreme Court has easy cases. These cases are best identified by unanimity. If all the justices agree that a law is constitutional or unconstitutional, an individual justice's vote does not tell us anything very interesting about his views. Sixty-three of the 259 cases were decided by unanimous vote. If we exclude those "easy" decisions, we find that Rehnquist voted to reject the 1st Amendment claim an astonishing 92 percent of the time. In these same cases, the other justices voted to uphold the 1st Amendment challenge 55 percent of the time. Thus, in non-unanimous decisions the other justices were six times more likely than Rehnquist to find a law in violation of "the freedom of speech, or of the press."

This may be misleading. Perhaps the "liberal" justices, such as Brennan, Douglas and Marshall, skewed the data. Before drawing any conclusions, we should therefore compare Rehnquist's voting record with those of his more "conservative" colleagues, such as Burger, Scalia and Thomas. That comparison shows that Burger was 1.8 times more likely than Rehnquist to vote in favor of the 1st Amendment, Scalia was 1.6 times more likely, and Thomas was 1.5 times more likely. Thus, during his tenure, Rehnquist was by an impressive margin the member of the Supreme Court least likely to invalidate a law as violating "the freedom of speech, or of the press."

Even more striking were Rehnquist's votes in cases involving freedom of the press. These decisions addressed such issues as whether the 1st Amendment guarantees a journalist-source privilege, whether the government may enjoin the publication of truthful information, and whether the press has a 1st Amendment right of access to certain places or information. In the non-unanimous decisions involving freedom of the press, Rehnquist rejected the constitutional claim 100 percent of the time. In more than 30 years on the Court, Rehnquist never once found a violation of freedom of the press in a non-unanimous decision.

There were only three areas in which Rehnquist showed any interest in enforcing the constitutional guarantee of free expression: in cases involving advertising, religious expression and campaign finance regulation. Rehnquist was 2.6 times more likely to invalidate laws restricting commercial advertising than laws restricting political or artistic expression. He voted to invalidate campaign finance legislation 67 percent of the time, and he voted to invalidate restrictions on religious expression 100 percent of the time. Indeed, in non-unanimous decisions, Rehnquist was 14.7 times more likely to vote to invalidate a law restricting commercial advertising, campaign expenditures, or religious expression than one involving any other aspect of "the freedom of speech, or of the press."

What all this leads me to conclude is that Rehnquist's record with respect to "the freedom of speech, or of the press" was dismal. Not only was he the justice least likely to protect these freedoms, but his general passivity toward these freedoms cannot be defended as principled, coherent or neutral. When all was said and done, Rehnquist's 1st Amendment belonged to corporations, wealthy political candidates, and churches. In this, at least, he won't be missed.

Geoffrey R. Stone is law professor at the University of Chicago and the author of "Perilous Times: Free Speech in Wartime from the Sedition Act of 1798 to the War on Terrorism."




Copyright © 2005, Chicago Tribune
link: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...ncommentary-hed

bravo

we need an applause smiley

Straybow is offline Straybow
Emperor
SG(2)… gone but not forgotten
Jan 1970
time: 23:31
  Old Post 07-09-2005 08:56 Visit Straybow's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
we're not a litigious society and our constitution doesn't have a Bill of rights. The Australia High court is basically there to adjudicate states rights and the powers of the federal government.
Funny, that's the impression one would get reading the US Constitution on the role of the Supreme Court.

Straybow is offline Straybow
Emperor
SG(2)… gone but not forgotten
Jan 1970
time: 23:31
  Old Post 07-09-2005 09:39 Visit Straybow's homepage!
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Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
The dude needs to take charge.

He hasn't.

He showed up and left.

That's good crisis management.
...
Considering there are STILL people who haven't been evacuated, the dude needs to start yelling at people until they are.

Guliani did it.
Excellent point, that last one. New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin needs to quit whining and take charge.

Your whining against Bush is irrelevant. Get a life.

Last edited by Straybow on 07-09-2005 at 20:36

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:31
  Old Post 07-09-2005 18:47
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PHELPS STRIKES AGAIN!

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:31
  Old Post 07-09-2005 19:48 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Straybow
Funny, that's the impression one would get reading the US Constitution on the role of the Supreme Court.


You'd be wrong then.

Wycoff is offline Wycoff
Chieftain

Feb 2003
time: 00:31
  Old Post 07-09-2005 20:38
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Is Phelps the craziest man in America?

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:31
  Old Post 07-09-2005 20:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Wycoff
Is Phelps the craziest man in America?
definitely top 5

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:31
  Old Post 08-09-2005 02:08
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Bush will be there. I'd LOVE to see them try and pull something. Can you say "secret service"

rah is offline rah
Apolyton Prince of Moderators, Master of Reason
Lord of the Ferrets
Jan 1970
time: 23:31
  Old Post 08-09-2005 02:27
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Roberts will be CJ by the end of the month.
Having a full court for the next session will be a priority, and it shows that Bush played the hand dealt him properly. (admittedly a damn good hand) There is no way the Dems can keep this from happening without looking like partisian obstructionist hacks. The final confirmation will not even be close.

Filling the other slot will take considerably longer.

 
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