06-09-2005 17:58									#1
	Customizing a good and long game! Help Inflate your Upload Space

Hello,

installed AC+CF recently. I noticed that things were going much too fast, especially secret projects.

Want to customize a game which takes a bit more time to complete.

After setting randomized HUGE MAP, what to turn on/off in the game rulez?

What about Tech Stagnation or things like Do-or-Die. Plz help! Want an enjoyable long nice game!

Greetz,
Cab

	06-09-2005 18:08									#2
	Re: Customizing a good and long game! Help Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by TheCabal Hello, installed AC+CF recently. I noticed that things were going much too fast, especially secret projects. Want to customize a game which takes a bit more time to complete. After setting randomized HUGE MAP, what to turn on/off in the game rulez? What about Tech Stagnation or things like Do-or-Die. Plz help! Want an enjoyable long nice game! Greetz, Cab

Hi TheCabal,

several options here. First you can play some of the "Single Player Challenges" (or "SP Challenges") over at Civgaming . These games are specifically designed to be a tougher match against the AI's.

Chaos Theory also posted here at 'poly a very interesting Solstice Challenge that should give you a good run for you money.

Finally, as far as just selecting options in the base game is concerned: dense cloud cover seems to help the AI's the most, as well as 50% water/ land mix. And be sure to have Yang as one of the AI's - not that this AI is better than the others, but that its just more fun to beat him up....


FYI and hope this helps!


D

	06-09-2005 18:27									#3
	Increase the size of your Attachments

If you put Tech Stagnation on, make sure you edit the alpha.txt (and/or alphax.txt) to make the obligatory retirement year later than the default 2500/2600.

	06-09-2005 18:41									#4
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Not necessarily. One can transcend on transcend difficulty, blind research and all other hardest options on before 2300.
Without blind you can do it at early 23th century.

	06-09-2005 18:49									#5
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Hi TheCabal,

Turning on TechStag will make the game last longer, especially if combined with playing on a larger map. Instead of playing on a HUGE map, you can select CUSTOM SIZE in the startup options. Then type in your own map sixe. A HUGE map is generally 128x64. You can go as high as 256x256. Turning on Blind Research also will increase the length of the game.

I think that using the above three options will have the greatest effect on game length. You also may wish to try setting ocean coverage at 70-90%, native life forms to abundant and cloud cover to sparse.

Hope this helps and welcome to the forum!

	06-09-2005 19:12									#6
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And blind research will lenghten the game as well, since no easy beeline to Industrial Automation can be done.

	06-09-2005 19:38									#7
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I have nothing to say except that the merits of long games are dubious at best. They get old fast.

I wish I knew what year I transcend in. I know its never before 2250 anyway...

	06-09-2005 20:27									#8
	Got spare money?

Damn... didn't have expected that much answers from you guys in such a short time! Thanks a lot!! As you might know it's not that easy to decide with what (game rules, planet options) to play a new long game, such as what faction you are going to spend your time with.

Does the option BLIND RESEARCH belong to the realistic category?

Thx again for your helpful answers!

Greetings,
Cab

	06-09-2005 20:36									#9
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Haha, I have a special opinion of options which increase realism at the cost of fun. Am I correctly interpreting your wording that you do as well?

I never play with Blind Research. If I was more patient I might do tech stagnation though.

	06-09-2005 21:19									#10
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Another thing you can do is add a Probe Cruiser to the game, making it available with the discovery of Doc: Init. Essentially do the following:

1. In your main SMAC(X) subdirectory open up the alpha.txt file (or alphax.txt file for SMAX) using a text editor program such as MS Notepad.

2. In the Text Editor do a search for #UNITS. This will place you in the area of the file where all of the default units for the game are listed.

3. Right below the #UNITS line there is a number. Increment this by one (this number reflects the number of default units in this area).

4. At the bottom of the list of default units copy and paste in the following line:

Probe Cruiser, Cruiser, Probe Team, Scout, 11, 0, 0, DocInit, -1, 00000000000000000000000000


5. Save off the file (did I mention you should probably make a backup of your alpha.txt and alphax.txt file before trying to edit them? ).

6. Start a new game (note: it has to be a new game, as the #UNITS section of the alpha(x).txt file is imprinted onto a game at startup).

This will then enable to AI's to build probe cruisers upon the discovery of Doc:Init, bringing an added element of aquatic stealth to the game. FYI and enjoy!


D

	07-09-2005 00:10									#11
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you could try my own scen i havnt uploaded it has boosted AI's that play like nuts...its 2189 and i am researching secrets of alpha centauri with 3000 lab\turn(at 40% only) and lal\uni is still 2 techs ahead of me! not to mention they have 90% of SP including uni with VW and HSA and lal has 700 pop...he has been pop booming since 2130, but size limits of slowed him a bit... i call it cataphract difficulty

of course youll need to use crawlers pretty well

	07-09-2005 15:43									#12
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IMHO both blind research and tech stagnation belong to "realistic" cathegories.

1.The realism of blind research was brilliantly proved by Shawnmmcc half a year ago - he gave both theoretical and practical aspects of what is "blind" and "what's" not and I was convinced of the fact even before that.
A discussion regarding this might break out here now, but I think majority of intelligent people, especially those who actually work in research, agree that it's blind in RL.

2.Tech is coming in just too fast for a skilled player, especially if he's Uni.

	07-09-2005 17:45									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

i disagree 100%. if humans had the ability to send a ship,they had at least tech 6 lvl on earth. those techs like bio,doc, plan econ,etc etc etc,are all known and the techs description indicates this.its a rediscovery and knowing the techs,which they do,and using and having practical application,is 2 different things

if i can check unity logs and see we had 4 wheeled driving machines using gas,why the heck couldnt i direct engineers and researchers toward building it. now some techs like prog psych,yes, those are real techs. but random discoveries? thats a big realistic

i also think the uni tech speed is OK. i have 2 pbems im in,one i started now and one i took from sebed. the uni is not that far ahead in either,by more than a few techs.in fact sebed has somehow left research costs almost twice as high as the next guy,while leaving me with not quite 2x as many research

imho

	07-09-2005 18:25									#14
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quote: Originally posted by binTravkin IMHO both blind research and tech stagnation belong to "realistic" cathegories. 1.The realism of blind research was brilliantly proved by Shawnmmcc half a year ago - he gave both theoretical and practical aspects of what is "blind" and "what's" not and I was convinced of the fact even before that. A discussion regarding this might break out here now, but I think majority of intelligent people, especially those who actually work in research, agree that it's blind in RL.

I originally thought Blind Research was the most "realistic" option, but now I'm not so sure. The main factor, in my opinion, is whether the Techs are discovered or invented, the difference between "Eureka!" and "Let's set out to solve this problem," - I think there's a mix of both. However, the "discovered" Techs are still somewhat directed - for instance, "Centauri Ecology" is not invented in the strictest definition, but it can be argued that scientists choose to set-out to find out about the ecology of Planet, hence it is directed research. In a similar way, Fusion Power is already postulated; therefore its discovery can be worked towards i.e. directed.

The very fact that Sid Meier has come up with a future tech tree can be used to argue that the future of technology is no longer about finding new things out, but merely applying what we already know in different ways - humanity has moved beyond discovering physical phenomena and then explaining them to predicting phenomena and the finding them.

Although, I prefer to play with Blind Research, if only because it stops bee-lining. Tech Stagnation can't really be argued for or against realism, since it's only scaling a variable, it doesn't really change anything.

	07-09-2005 18:27									#15
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Well, probably you haven't taken them from the most skilled Uni players..

In CGN 19 (Archaic can approve) I had MMI and Env Econ while the opponents had HEC and GeneSplicing at best.
I had more than 2 times more tech than anyone else from quite an early game up till 2170.
But the other players where not the best ones around, be it Buster, KK, CT or some other really good ones, I'd struggling to keep their probes off.

	07-09-2005 18:45									#16
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so basicly you said that you were playing weakers-than-yourself but in a game vs the betters you would have hard time,thus invalidating your own argument of uni power.

reminds me of a history [chanell] special on bullet proof armour that concludes with ''although weapons technology constantly advances and bullet proof substances today will be peirceable tomorow'' or along those lines

[although i am certainl] the university is the strongest faction. thats why i let everyone pick first in Felixcactus

	07-09-2005 19:31									#17
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Well, yeah, a controversial post.
But I think it's very easy to achieve massive tech lead with Uni even when playing against equals, given some map settings and some luck.
If you manage to get up to HSA first and build it, you're away as Fusion is almost your next tech and you can smash anyone who tries to kill your HSA.

	08-09-2005 14:06									#18
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I can certainly attest to the power of Uni. I find that if the Uni gets the VW, and the Uni player is at least equal to everyone else, than the Uni player is likely to end up as king of the hill for the vast majority of the game, provided they play their cards right. I've been in situations where I've had Enviro Econ. before anyone else even had Ind. Auto., and it honestly doesn't take much at all to show someone how to do that consistantly.

	08-09-2005 14:22									#19
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Hence your challenge call on me?

	08-09-2005 19:40									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic I can certainly attest to the power of Uni. I find that if the Uni gets the VW, and the Uni player is at least equal to everyone else, than the Uni player is likely to end up as king of the hill for the vast majority of the game, provided they play their cards right. I've been in situations where I've had Enviro Econ. before anyone else even had Ind. Auto., and it honestly doesn't take much at all to show someone how to do that consistantly.

I agree and I don't since tech is probably the most important yet most fleeting advantage in a game. Even if a uni player can tech 50% faster than any individual opponent, smart multiplayers will team up to leapfrog up the tech tree. The result in any game where players can meet or communicate early can be that the uni doesn't achieve any significant tech advantage.

That is the big downside of the uni. Even in a game where co-op victory is turned off, it may be that say a good Hive and a good Morgan player will see the benefit of co-operating tech-wise for a time to prevent runaway uni victory. The result can often be that they BEAT the uni to some key techs and get the associate SPs.

If a faction like the Drones or Hive are anywhere near tech parity with the Uni, IMHO the uni is in big trouble.

I'll repeat it. I agree that tech adbvantage is huge. Having it can provide a winning advantage. But it is the most fleeting of edges against determined and smart opposition. If opponents can negate your tech edge, then what advantage exactly does the UNi have ??

	08-09-2005 20:08									#21
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what if the uni is working with say a morgan on tech deals to go faster?

i dont think the uni are good becasue they are far ahead in tech.my own experiance indicates they dont keep far ahead unless with mondo effort. but getting the good techs like MMI before they have defences or etc,can be quite descisive,which is what i think of. picking up the cloudbase and then owning with copters

with other factions like drones,believers ill get stuck trying to get to techs i needed yesterday. although i can only speak from SP experiance and the few mp games im in

	08-09-2005 20:41									#22
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Does anyone think its time for another thread discussing how the factions rank?

	08-09-2005 21:13									#23
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The Uni is really scary with the VW because they can ICS with impunity. The research bonus is gravy.

	08-09-2005 23:10									#24
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The uni only needs to get just a little bit lucky to get the PTS and VW. At that point they'll probably get the PEG too and from there on its like shooting fish in a barrel.

I suppose that the production of 20 crawlers in a short timespace would temporarily put them at having less developed infrastructure and military but the extra resource gathering would surely make up for it fast.

	08-09-2005 23:41									#25
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the PTS AND the VW? thats some luck there

reminds me of a uni game in in where i have all those SP's(like 10) except ME and WP that was a heck of alot of luck sebed had

	09-09-2005 00:46									#26
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If the Uni is only interested in the PTS and VW, and is willing to make some sacrifices, unless some other player is gunning for one of those SPs (usually the PTS), the Uni has a good shot. Expansion can be curtailed, crawlers can all be sacrificed, terraforming can be delayed, military can be neglected, all for the massive advantage of being able to plop down size 3 drone-free bases.

	09-09-2005 01:06									#27
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ill have to consider trying for that in the future.it does sound reasonable. i suppose morgan would be the primary competitor for PTS

	09-09-2005 02:20									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Cataphract887 what if the uni is working with say a morgan on tech deals to go faster?

Then quite likely one of them will win the game because both will get so far ahead of the others

One Pbem I played was like that-- Two good researchers teamed up for Co-op victory. I teamed up with the other player but when I saw my tech rate was soemthing like 8 times his, I knew I was in trouble

	09-09-2005 02:29									#29
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I agree that the university can be scary good-- I rank them among the best/strongest factions . . . but I stick by my point that a tech lead is the most fleeting of advantages. Probe action or trading can wipe out most all of your tech advantage quite quickly. If you haven't translated a tech lead into a lead in development or lasting advantages (SPs) the uni can have troubles

I would also say that the discussion here seems to be focused on builder style maps and assumes unimpeded growth. The sacrifice everything to get PTS/VW and then explode will work most of the time on larger maps, but if you are next to a well-played Spartan, watch out. I understand that the ACDG demonstrates how a good researcher (Morgan) can have problems against an early militaristic strike

	09-09-2005 02:36									#30
	Remove this text

The catch here is that if the Uni succeeds at going for VW/PTS, it very likely wins. If a momentum faction foils the Uni, the Uni loses, of course, but the momentum faction may not gain much, leaving them behind all the other players.