10-09-2005 19:12									#31
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO Omni?

That slider can be amended en route, actually, so that turn lost or gained is merely a footnote. Chivalry will be done in time anyways, and as I said, I found the gold elsewhere.
The plan is still the same. Market-Templar and keshiks.
Chivalry the turn before templar, no changes.

	10-09-2005 19:13									#32
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I suggest to all Khanate Princes to use your Province threads for your long term plans (more than this turn), and use the turn threads for this turn managemant

	10-09-2005 19:35									#33
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Selling barracks in cities that will not build military units in the foreseeable future seems like the best decision (money savings). However, we must also maintain our barracks in the border cities and cities close to the battlefield or potential battlefield.

It seems that barracks in Bloodhue are least useful as we plan Bloodhue to become a settler factory. Barracks in Bloodview are somewhat useful in case the Desolators decide to head our way. Bloodview is more capable of producing military units than Brutallica.

Barracks in Red River Hill and Furnace are needed because these cities are on the borders of our empire and near hostile nations.


So, I'd say sell barracks in Bloodhue this turn and keep the rest for now.

	10-09-2005 19:38									#34
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Regarding the Province of Paddystan, I have no changes. All is well.

	10-09-2005 19:47									#35
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As for building temples, I thought we agreed to postpone temples for now.

More than temples we need workers from these corrupt cities to improve the land of our core and then be added to the major cities, turning them into super cities which will then be capable of producing expensive military units such as keshik.

Tell me one thing Ruby. What do you prefer, a temple in Furnace or a keshik in Furnace for the same price?

	10-09-2005 19:49									#36
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Pad, thank you for honouring my request regarding the Grey Wolves.

	10-09-2005 19:52									#37
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Actually I stand corrected. Let's sell barracks in both Bloodhue and Bloodview. That's two barracks and 2 gold saved on maintenance.

	10-09-2005 20:04									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Ljube As for building temples, I thought we agreed to postpone temples for now. More than temples we need workers from these corrupt cities to improve the land of our core and then be added to the major cities, turning them into super cities which will then be capable of producing expensive military units such as keshik. Tell me one thing Ruby. What do you prefer, a temple in Furnace or a keshik in Furnace for the same price?

I really really really think you missed the point.

Temple - Wheat Tile - More Food - More People - More future poprushes and workers - More land - More Tile coverage - More visibility - One more Turn to go for enemy units - less patrols- one gold patrol value- End of discussion.

	10-09-2005 20:07									#39
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How many tiles did those barracks cost us?
not knocking the ides, just curious

oh, anyone want a tequilla?

	10-09-2005 20:09									#40
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Tequilla, please

And yes I sold on the Temple.

	10-09-2005 20:13									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Paddy the Scot oh, anyone want a tequilla?

Me, Me, Me, Me!

	10-09-2005 20:18									#42
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* Paddy the Scot passes around the bottle

certainly glad we meet at the pub for these turn threads

	10-09-2005 21:51									#43
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Omni, I will reply to all your points, just so you see I didn't miss the point.


Temple - 53 turns more until it is completed. This can be sped up using pop-rushing and forest chopping, but for that we need workers deployed down there and we have none for that at the moment or in the foreseeable future.

Wheat tile is polluted - many workers needed to make it useful, more workers needed to irrigate it all at the same time when we need workers to be improving our core, not some distant corrupt hamlet.

All this can be done in about 50 turns at the cost of delaying badly needed public works in our core. But who guarantees the game will last that long or if it does last that this action would in any case be significant.

More land - We are not aiming at domination victory. If we are, then Temple of Artemis is the best way to achieve the same result faster.

More tile coverage - I don't know what you mean. I suppose the same as above.

More visibility - Furnace is built on hill so visibility is not a problem. We are planning to build another city down the road (near incense) and to attack Lost Boys and/or Babylon, so Furnace will not be a border city pretty soon and will thus need no increased visibility.

One more Turn to go for enemy units - Indeed we are doomed if we ever let an enemy move that close to our land.

End of discussion - I think this is only the beginning.

	11-09-2005 00:16									#44
	The Furnace - Temple Issue Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Lords, thanks for your concern for the temple in the Furnace.

The picture shows the furnace borders as is.
Red Dot: Unit Bloodletter is there, moved it so we had a real image of the Furnace.
Yellow line is border with temple.
Blue line would be what we would have sight of then.

Barracks will stay.

Temple and Barracks can be a strong part of Death Valley / Southern Nation security protocol.

A poll started.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=138456

Attachment: the furnace.jpg
This has been downloaded 35 time(s).

Last edited by Rubychaser on 11-09-2005 at 00:37

	11-09-2005 00:29									#45
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Temple, eh? When will this temple be built? In how many turns will the border expand to the blue line? Who will pay maintenance for this temple?


EDIT: Instead of temple, why not another city on incense? The city would provide another luxury which may even allow switch to republic.

	11-09-2005 00:42									#46
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Well, the arguments have been laid out Ljube, Paddy can poll it if he wants, but Rubychaser is the Prince here.
Rubychaser decides over Death Valley.

	11-09-2005 00:48									#47
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Yes, I think it would be wise to poll this issue.

I don't think that temple is justified, not at that rate of construction.

	11-09-2005 00:52									#48
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There is a poll, the link is clearly marked.

	11-09-2005 00:55									#49
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The poll is extremely one-sided. Where is the "No temple" option?

	11-09-2005 00:58									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Ljube Temple, eh? When will this temple be built? In how many turns will the border expand to the blue line? Who will pay maintenance for this temple? EDIT: Instead of temple, why not another city on incense? The city would provide another luxury which may even allow switch to republic.

Ljube, you talk of city in incense. That has been a vague discussion point many times for near 1500 years.

I have no plans, notes or anything else that signifies we planning a further city south of "the Furnace".

If memory serves me correct, last time we had a settler spare for such a mission, it was polled, discussion, prayed about, beers drunk, neighbours shot and decided to settle "BloodFort".

If anything I see the situation in this neck of the woods a lot more volatile than it ever was.

	11-09-2005 01:03									#51
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Yes, at the moment, but what about 20 turns from now when Lost Boys a trimmed a bit? There will be a race to that incense and we better win that race.

Temple in Furnace will not even be built by then. It is a futile exercise and the advocates of that temple have never explained its purpose nor the time frame in which it is supposed to be built, nor the resources diverted to it.

	11-09-2005 01:12									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Ljube The poll is extremely one-sided. Where is the "No temple" option?

You could use "Other Option that posted below".

Poll thread for constructive advice. My understanding is that as Khanate Prince of Death Valley I have to make decisions. Poll and thread to help me.

So help. You have a great deal to offer, I know that Ljube. The Horde has great skills and people.

I not here telling you what to do in your province. Even gave Pad back control of Grey Wolves so I would not have full operational control of units in all the the other provinces.

You and I are equals Ljube. I not looking to be spoken down to, I am looking to do my job. Again, come to the party, give me the advice to help in this situation.


the poll
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=138456

	11-09-2005 01:16									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Ljube Temple in Furnace will not even be built by then. It is a futile exercise and the advocates of that temple have never explained its purpose nor the time frame in which it is supposed to be built, nor the resources diverted to it.

Have you read the poll thread? Looked at the picture?

Either add a worker soon or change scientist back to work force labourer and wait 8 more turns for growth then pop rush.

	11-09-2005 01:21									#54
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Prince Ruby you have the blessing of the Blood Cell to construct this temple at The Furnace.

The strategic benefit of the additional line of sight this will give us at such a critical and central location cannot have a price put on it, simply put it will be invaluable to the Horde.

Bless you my Son

	11-09-2005 01:35									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Ljube Yes, at the moment, but what about 20 turns from now when Lost Boys a trimmed a bit? There will be a race to that incense and we better win that race. Temple in Furnace will not even be built by then. It is a futile exercise and the advocates of that temple have never explained its purpose nor the time frame in which it is supposed to be built, nor the resources diverted to it.

Ljube 20 turns is indeed a long time at the moment. Yes those incense sure are a target. A worthy one indeed.

It would be a long and hard case for me to want to settle down around the incense. So far from our heart, so hard to defend. I see no reason why we would place a town so far out there, as a gift to either of our enemies.

I will find the threads and polls of this matter from our histories, but I sure we decided to take whatever was built there by anyone else. Making sure that no other nation could have it.

And if it come to us or AM, we that issue is definitly not now...

But one we can cover if you like?



As to the temple, mate, is it such a bad build? Temple of Art is a long time from now, and we have 2 ntions in that area that we are at war with right now. Also we know that DR are prowling the area, and we know they love border incursions, especially if they want to start a war.

I vote yes for the temple. As to how, well I am not quite sure yet. Would like to get a worker there asap and pop rush it. Wish that AM worker was not doing a road in a forest etc...

	11-09-2005 01:58									#56
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By AM worker you mean Platy I suppose?

That worker is more valuable to us than our workers as it costs no maintenance.

People here are forgetting the issues at hand, the need to be focused. They are forgetting the ways of our ancestors, the warriors' way.

In the first 3000 years we accomplished much. We are the most powerful nation in the world.
We didn't accomplish this by pop-rushing temples. Babylon was rushing temples and look where it got them.

And yes, temple is the worst build we can have now, or any time in the future as it only serves for defence and that defensive purpose of that temple is only to provide 1 turn advance notice to an assault force. But if an assault force were on its way, would that extra turn notice save us?

From a military point of view, temples are only justified in newly captured cities (those that can easily be counter-attacked or are in danger of culture flipping). If we wish to increase the land controlled by our civilisation, a much better method is to build Temple of Artemis because that wonder will have an effect on all our cities and work simultaneously on increasing the city radius of all of them without costing us a single dime for maintenance.

Last edited by Ljube on 11-09-2005 at 02:34

	11-09-2005 02:24									#57
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Internal war.

	11-09-2005 02:30									#58
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Ljube, I do not like your statements. Not needed.

Do not call us soft! I have stood the tests of time in this land, and taken the battle to the face of my enemy many times.

Is it that you think us soft for you not getting your way?

Have all your decisions been staunch...? Think over you actions these past many years, are you so pure that you can throw such stones?

Ruby is asking for advice, running a poll and discussion thread to get a feel of the matter, when he has the authority to have made a decision.

	11-09-2005 02:36									#59
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My apologies for the lack of respect, Great Khan. I humbly beg for your forgiveness and the forgiveness of others.

	11-09-2005 02:38									#60
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You may as well be on the Babs team if your going to flame those of us you disagree with !

That is there stock in trade after all !

Please ljube recognise were many and we all have ideas and views.

I dont like every decision the Horde makes, but i always back the majority !