13-09-2005 07:45									#1
	11 kids found locked in cages in Ohio house Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/12/ca...n.ap/index.html

quote: CLARKSFIELD TOWNSHIP, Ohio (AP) -- Sheriff's deputies found 11 children locked in cages rigged with alarms Monday in a north Ohio house. The children, ages 1 to 14, were in cages in the walls of the home in Clarksfield Township, about 50 miles west of Cleveland. They had no blankets or pillows, according to the Huron County Sheriff's Office. The children were taken to Fisher-Titus Medical Center. No information on their conditions was available late Monday. Sharon and Mike Gravelle are adoptive or foster parents for all 11 children, officials said. The Gravelles do not have a listed telephone number. Few additional details were available late Monday. Prosecutors were reviewing the case, but no charges had yet been filed.

	13-09-2005 07:50									#2
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Do these nuts pop up in Britain or Germany?

	13-09-2005 07:50									#3
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Holy f*ck!

	13-09-2005 07:52									#4
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death penalty

	13-09-2005 07:53									#5
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I think it's time to re-introduce crucifixion...

	13-09-2005 07:54									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Sava death penalty

Hell yes. Though, if they find child porn, I'd be in favor of something more severe...

	13-09-2005 07:55									#7
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This is not just a knee-jerk internet tough guy forum post... I seriously believe that if you torture children you should be put to death.

	13-09-2005 07:57									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Sava This is not just a knee-jerk internet tough guy forum post... I seriously believe that if you torture children you should be put to death.

I completely agree...and I'm anti-capital punishment.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go clean up; my head just exploded.

	13-09-2005 07:57									#9
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I don't agree with capital punishment at all, but...


...I agree with Sava.

so confused... must lie down...

	13-09-2005 07:58									#10
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Now that, my friends, is a ****ing x-post.

	13-09-2005 08:01									#11
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quote: This is not just a knee-jerk internet tough guy forum post

Mine wasn't, either...

I've always believed that gory public torture for people like Sharon Gravelle would send a clear message to all the children in the society what's wrong and what's not, it would prevent future crime instead of just permanently punishing the present criminals.

quote: Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go clean up; my head just exploded.

Let me help you out with the standard anti-DePe-argument: "But there's a distinct possibility that they're innocent and in the future there will be some evidence which proves it!"

	13-09-2005 08:11									#12
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Naw...let's not be murderers.

But let the punishment fit the crime. I'd love it if the judge could sentence these shits to endure exactly the same treatment they handed out.

In the child-sized cages.

For life.

The DP is the easy way out. (by the way anyone else have the sinking feeling that religious nutballs are behind this?)

	13-09-2005 08:15									#13
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quote: Let me help you out with the standard anti-DePe-argument: "But there's a distinct possibility that they're innocent and in the future there will be some evidence which proves it!"

"Thou shalt not kill"

	13-09-2005 08:25									#14
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Yeah, no one who trully hates someone would really want their deaths, specially if you don;t believe in an afterlife.

A long life of wishing and wanting death to come as a sweet release is so much worse. Heck, most people commit suicide cause they are too weak to accept the idea of having to actually live through what they fear. That should make it clear which is the real punishment.

	13-09-2005 09:00									#15
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Torture it is.

"Bring out the gimp!"

...

"Well wake him up!"

	13-09-2005 09:15									#16
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They need to be forcibly moved to Cleveland. It's only 50 miles, so it'll be cheap on the state, and it's much worse than anything I've seen suggested so far.

	13-09-2005 09:17									#17
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell "Thou shalt not kill"

believing in what some book tells you to believe in

	13-09-2005 09:30									#18
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I believe that "eye for an eye" originally meant that the punishment should at the most, be as severe as the crime, rather than actually inflicting a similar punishment that is as severe as the crime.

	13-09-2005 09:34									#19
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For what it's worth, CNN is now saying only 8 kids were found in cages, though they confirm the Gravelles had custody of 11; no word yet on the other 3. They're also reporting the cages were approximately 3'x3' (1 meter square, for those of you using sensible systems of measurement).

	13-09-2005 09:35									#20
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You'd think wtih twisted **** like this keeps happening after a while people would actually listen to me that youth need more civil rights. But noooo.

	13-09-2005 09:35									#21
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For some crimes death is the only aceptable punishment. This may be one of those time.

mrmitchell, the Bible supports the death penatly not oppose it. "an eye for an eye"

	13-09-2005 09:36									#22
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP You'd think wtih twisted **** like this keeps happening after a while people would actually listen to me that youth need more civil rights. But noooo.

This has nothing to do with your crusade, Ozzy. Youth civil rights wouldn't have changed a thing about this situation.

	13-09-2005 09:37									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Bill3000 I believe that "eye for an eye" originally meant that the punishment should at the most, be as severe as the crime, rather than actually inflicting a similar punishment that is as severe as the crime.

I don't really care about an "eye for an eye" or any of that other crap. I also don't really care about ancient moral codes or ancient forms of justice. You know what? Slavery was an accepted legal practice back in those days. During the time of the bible, women were treated like property. So as far as I'm concerned, religious texts, the bible, old moral codes, all that crap, is irrelevant and we should not concern ourselves with it. This is the 21st century and we should think for ourselves what to do with these sick individuals.

I think evil people should be put to death.

11 children are found locked up in cages.

This is an obvious case where children were tortured. There is no question of guilt or innocence.

There is no reason psychopaths should be kept alive.

In fact, I find it a bit interesting that some people are arguing that keeping the perpetrator alive in prison is a worse punishment. That sounds a bit sadistic to me.

I don't want this evil person to suffer or anything. Make it quick and painless for all I care. Just get rid of them.

	13-09-2005 10:14									#24
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This just gets better and better. The NY Times is reporting that the kids (and they are saying 11) "had various disabilities, including autism."

Jesus H. Christ.

	13-09-2005 10:29									#25
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quote: Sharon and Mike Gravelle are adoptive or foster parents for all 11 children, officials said.

Somethings fishy at the state agency if they let a single family adopt that many kids.

	13-09-2005 19:05									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly This has nothing to do with your crusade, Ozzy. Youth civil rights wouldn't have changed a thing about this situation.

It has everything to do with my crusade. The current problem is that youth have NO power in society. At every point their are beholden to adults around them. Adults who think they know what is best for them. They have no ability to defend themselves. Individuals are far more capable at defending themselves than outsiders who don't know the situation.

This was a foster home, so it stands to reason that all these kids were in a bad situation to begin with with their birth parents. So the benevolent state stepped in to "protect" them from their birth parents and, against their will, put them in with these foster parents who locked them in cages. Abuse in foster homes is more prevelant than in regular homes. This is not an isolated incident.

The problem is that the kids have no control in the situation. Abuse is a symptom of control. Parents, foster or otherwise, have complete control over their children, and feel they can do anything to "protect" them and properly raise them. There was an identical case to this a year or two ago, and the parents again didn't think they were doing anything wrong, they thought they were "protecting" their kids by locking them in cages.

The state has failed. Parents have failed. Kids need the ability to protect themselves.

	13-09-2005 19:31									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www For some crimes death is the only aceptable punishment. This may be one of those time. mrmitchell, the Bible supports the death penatly not oppose it. "an eye for an eye"

Impossible. Moses received the 10 commandments and one of them clearly says: You shall not kill. How can the same book then say that killing is okay?

	13-09-2005 19:34									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa Impossible. Moses received the 10 commandments and one of them clearly says: You shall not kill. How can the same book then say that killing is okay?

Cuz the commandment says "You shall not murder" not really the samething.

	13-09-2005 19:46									#29
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lo tirtzach vs lo taharog, IIUC.

Of course the commandments were given to a Hebrew speaking people - why should we expect the Gentiles, or even Jews who have been culturally assimilataed, to understand them?

	13-09-2005 21:22									#30
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find those responsible and do the world a favour...

and about the whole bible thing, a guy named jesus said that it is wrong to kill, whatever the circumstances...

so DD, are you christian by heart or by lips ?