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Richelieu
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Gatineau
Dec 2001
time: 00:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Seeker
Naw...let's not be murderers.
But let the punishment fit the crime. I'd love it if the judge could sentence these shits to endure exactly the same treatment they handed out.
In the child-sized cages.
For life.
The DP is the easy way out. |
In such cases i'm for the death penalty. Get rid of them, make sure they don't do it again, but don't sink to their level.
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Jack_www
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quote:
Originally posted by Atahualpa
Impossible. Moses received the 10 commandments and one of them clearly says: You shall not kill. How can the same book then say that killing is okay? |
That is a disscusstion for anther thread. BUt I do think people like this need to be put to death. In the end though I bet they will only get a year in prison or some other light sentence. The United States, in my opion, does not protect children well enough and lightly punishes people who abuse children. That is wrong, we should do everything we can to protect Children. That is why I think that people who sexal abuse children should be put to death. They will never change and will continue to abuse children as long as they can.
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Solver
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Apolyton Duke Of Something
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Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:37
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I can't believe this, but I agree with Sava. That was also my first reaction when I heard the news. There are things that there is no excuse for, and there are things that show that some people should be gotten rid of. In a way, I can understand (sometimes) murder. Some murders are done because of momentary strong emotions, other murders are committed for personal profit. I'm definitely not advocating murder, god forbid, but I'm saying that you can, in some cases, understand why the murderer did it. However, for something like this, there is no reason other than evil twistedness. Torturing people like that, especially children, does quite warrant the death penalty.
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Jack_www
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quote:
Originally posted by Az
Seriously, guys. It doesn't say "thou shall not kill". It says "thou shall not murder". |
You are right about that.
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Jack_www
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I, for one, think our society goes too far in protecting children (but I don't disagree that child abusers should face stiffer penalties).
But execution? That doesn't even fall into the "eye for an eye" category here, since the kids weren't murdered. I'm all for locking these scumbags up for a long, long time. I don't see how the circumstances merit killing anyone. |
Pedophiles will never change and will conitnue to abuse. So one you have to give them life in prison or put them to death. I think death more fitting to the crime, but that is just me. As for protecting children issue I am talking about when it comes to punishing people who abuse children.
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mrmitchell
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quote:
The DP is one of those issues I am rather divided on, since I wonder if it stands up against cold cost-benefit analysis. But saying that the state cannot lawfully kill people is rubbish - how can states go to war, then? |
Ideally they wouldn't.
Yes, I know, we don't live in an ideal world. But we have to attempt to follow a righteous path as best as we can...
For example, the Allies in World War II killed, but we had to, to prevent a greater loss than was already incurred...
Killing these foster parents will not prevent anything that locking them up couldn't. It only serves primal instincts like revenge.
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Rufus T. Firefly
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is one way of saying it, though I prefer "mensch"
Sep 2000
time: 07:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Wezil
I understand your concern but how would this have been prevented? Mandatory cell phones for all kids kept in cages so they can call for help? |
Ozzy - Wezil's point is the one I was making, too. The existence of rights doesn't keep those rights from being violated; adults have a right to life and property, but that stops neither murder nor theft. These kids weren't abusesd because they didn't have rights; they were abused because their caretakers were sick, heartless bastards. And, in fact, the minute agents of the State perceived this, the State acted. It's hard to see how youth rights would have changed this situation.
quote:
The state has failed. Parents have failed. Kids need the ability to protect themselves. |
Nice slogan, but what could that possibly mean in this situation? How the heck does a pre-teen autistic child "protect himself"? (To say nothing of the 1-year-old.) In fact, forget autistic; my smart, well-adjusted daughter didn't have anything like the resources to "protect herself" when she was 10. If we had been abusive parents, she woudl have had to be placed with some adult; any other alternative would have been unthinkable.
Concrete things should have been done here -- the house should have been visited more often, and inspected more thoroughly, and, yes, the State screwed up by not doing that. Fixing that, however, is a procedural matter. It has nothing to do with youth rights.
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OzzyKP
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Rockville, MD
Oct 1999
time: 00:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Ozzy - Wezil's point is the one I was making, too. The existence of rights doesn't keep those rights from being violated; adults have a right to life and property, but that stops neither murder nor theft. These kids weren't abusesd because they didn't have rights; they were abused because their caretakers were sick, heartless bastards. And, in fact, the minute agents of the State perceived this, the State acted. It's hard to see how youth rights would have changed this situation.
Nice slogan, but what could that possibly mean in this situation? How the heck does a pre-teen autistic child "protect himself"? (To say nothing of the 1-year-old.) In fact, forget autistic; my smart, well-adjusted daughter didn't have anything like the resources to "protect herself" when she was 10. If we had been abusive parents, she woudl have had to be placed with some adult; any other alternative would have been unthinkable.
Concrete things should have been done here -- the house should have been visited more often, and inspected more thoroughly, and, yes, the State screwed up by not doing that. Fixing that, however, is a procedural matter. It has nothing to do with youth rights. |
These children weren't in cages 24 hours a day. Putting aside the autistic child and the infants of course, what about the others? Why didn't they run away during the day? Why didn't they tell a neighbor? Why didn't they call authorities?
Because our culture trains children to obey adults, especially parents. Many abused children don't even recognize that what is being done to them is wrong. They are so used to placing blind trust in their caregiver. The same was true for battered women generations ago. Women had to, and to a lesser extent still do, have to be told that when their spouse hits them its NOT ok, and they should do something about it. If that still happens today, think about women long before women's lib. Think about kids today.
Assuming youth were sufficently empowered to look out for their own interests and not suppressed into obedience, what could they do? If they ran away they'd be scooped up and placed back in the foster home. If they told authorities, odds are the authorities wouldn't listen. I heard of a case where kids were in a burning building and placed several calls to 911 for help, and 911 kept hanging up on them, not believing the kids. They actually had to call some outside adult they knew so SHE could call 911. Bullshit like that happens all the time.
Look at this from a recently released report from the United Nations:
quote:
Children
are not taken seriously because it is believed that
they do not really know what they want or need,
and the perception is of children as objects or possessions
whose views do not really matter.The
potentially devastating impact of this failure to
respect the validity of children’s experiences is illustrated
in a series of child abuse inquiries in residential
care in the UK. It was found that an institutional
culture existed in which children’s accounts of abuse
were systematically discredited in favour of adults’
denials. Without fear of exposure, the perpetrators
were able to continue their abuse and a climate of
impunity prevailed over a period of thirty years. |
In a society that respected and valued the opinions of youth, twisted **** like locking kids in cages would be much rarer.
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13-09-2005 21:27
IIRC on political compass I am around -4 left economic and -4 social lib
. Then again, I also agree with a lot you say on Civ.
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