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yin26
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This space reserved for Darkstar.
Apr 1999
time: 14:37
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quote:
Because the enemy was almost completely on the defensive, knocking our way into a city was pretty difficult. Not only were the defenders able to upgrade their units with defensive bonuses, but they also had plenty of time to fortify since it takes a while to take full effect. The end result was a victory by points on our side as time ran out on the match. |
quote:
Fargo just built and built and built and expanded his culture to a point where bordering cities were helpless against his might. Added onto everything else, he received a Great Person which he used to enter a city close to his borders and create a Great Work. Choosing to do this is being affectionately called a "culture bomb" by Firaxis as it explodes in the city and creatues a gargantuan amount of culture. When Fargo dropped his bomb, his borders grew infinitely closer to my own. |
While MP games will obviously circumvent most worries about the AI, what I see up there spells SP tedium: It seems far easier to defend, the AI didn't seem to attack, and "culture bombs" / turtle building seemed to be overpowered. Hard to say without the game in front of us, of course, but I would affectionately call what I've just read:
Sandbox Civ
P.S. I do like the differentiated unit upgrades. That seems quite intuitive, strategic and fun.
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Adm.Naismith
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Milano - Italy
Oct 1999
time: 06:37
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quote:
Originally posted by yin26
It seems far easier to defend, the AI didn't seem to attack, and "culture bombs" / turtle building seemed to be overpowered. Hard to say without the game in front of us, of course, but I would affectionately call what I've just read:
Sandbox Civ
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To be fair, the defensive bonus raising slowly than before was still effective because of the long time the human player had spent reaching the enemy city. It seems to me that a good blitz tactic can be useful, to defeat units not fortify at max strenght, more than in previus Civ. Counterattack will also expose the offending troops, because their defensive bonus will probably be still *zero*.
Culture bomb can be the tip of the iceberg: the reviewer explained that player Fargo was massively using a builder tactic from start, then the Great Person gained (AFAIK a related effect of caring of develop the cities, instead of ICS them) was the detonator of a "culture bomb" already built *instead* of plenty of military units.
Alternative tactic that worked once is not killing the show, at least until it's proven the *only* working tactic.
Do you agree, Yin? "Game innocent until proven guilty?" 
BTW Summer sandbox is funny for children between 8:00 AM to 8:00 PM; summer sandbeach is funny for adults between 11:00 PM to 4:00 AM.
Same sand, just chose wisely. 
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The_Aussie_Lurker
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Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
May 2001
time: 05:37
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To be fair, Yin, the game these people are referring to was played against a team comprised of 'Firaxis Heavyweights', such as Sid-who have been playing the game for over a whole YEAR. Given those circumstances, I doubt very much that the IGN/Gamespy team had much chance of beating them !
Also, before we completely denigrate the builder/defensive strategy, we mustn't overlook things like the importance internal trade of food (and its relation to city health) and what seems like a greater emphasis on trade in general. Given this, a smart offensive player could force a defensive player to come out from behind his defenses in order to defend his trade networks from constant attack.
Also, what they describe as culture bombs actually require the creation of great people which-in turn-we know require good, well developed/specialised cities-almost the total antithesis of ICS! City flipping is definitely gone, as now you have to choose to give up a city, via diplomacy, not merely have it announced to you that you are losing it  ! Lastly, it really sounds like religion is going to really shake things up-and probably make all of my past strategies obsolete ! Anyway, when you take it all together, it simply sounds like they have finally brought diplomacy and culture up to an equal footing with military conquest. Thats not to say there are things I am unhappy with, at least based on the little I know, but the things which I am hearing are making very excited indeed !
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
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The_Aussie_Lurker
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Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
May 2001
time: 05:37
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Oh, also remember that the bigger a civ is (# of cities), the more money said civ has to pay in order to maintain existing levels of research and culture. Again, this is the antithesis of Infinite City Sleaze, especially when you take it together with the maintainance costs of cities.
Now, what I REALLY want to know is-how does air combat work and how important is the navy going to be this time around?
Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
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yin26
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This space reserved for Darkstar.
Apr 1999
time: 14:37
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Just to ask, Mark: Is this not a place to discuss ideas, banter around possibilities, probe potential weakensses, etc.? It's a forum!
I suggest a separate forum for some who just want to click on the image of the game box along with a sound file popping up that plays "It's gonna rock!" Hey, if that's all you're coming here for, then don't bother the people having discussions.
To be fair, you could have the opposite forum where you click on the game box and the sound file plays "It's gonna suck!" Lots of people should stay there, too.
And depending on our moods any given day, perhaps we should banish ourselves to one forum or the other, but the comments above are based on actual gameplay elements. For people unable to process that high a level of discourse, I'll get your sound file ready...
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yin26
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This space reserved for Darkstar.
Apr 1999
time: 14:37
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P.S. When I talk about ICS, I'm not talking about some mathematical abberation that makes 10 size 1 cities more productive than 1 size 10 city. I'm talking about the fact that spewing forth as many cities as you can reasonable stack upon the map (and upon each other) will still be par for the course. Firaxis says "you don't necessarily need to build a lot of cities to win."
Yeah, you don't necessarily need to build an army, either, but the quickest path to victory is clear nevertheless. In any event, if a few of my uber cities now spit out wonder units every once in a while, I guess I'll feel happpy that quality has made some blip on the quantity surface.
And just to speed this up lest anybody thinks he is about to say something new: Yes, this is the Civ formula. Tried and true. And, yes, I've played it to death and find the whole thing --a DECADE later!-- boring and predicatable ... unless, and we shall see, Firaxis actually has done something interesting that we haven't read about.
Also: If I determine that it's the same old, tired game, I won't be here whining about it. I'll get out of the way and let the people who enjoy the game post here without my carping.
Last edited by yin26 on 14-09-2005 at 22:16
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14-09-2005 08:42
I particulary liked the fact that you can do so well with a builder strategy as the guy the writer played against!
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