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mitch
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Nice little article. Can anyone really defend the system we have currently?
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Singapore and Katrina
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Published: September 14, 2005
Singapore
There is something troublingly self-indulgent and slothful about America today - something that Katrina highlighted and that people who live in countries where the laws of gravity still apply really noticed. It has rattled them - like watching a parent melt down.
That is certainly the sense I got after observing the Katrina debacle from half a world away here in Singapore - a city-state that, if it believes in anything, believes in good governance. It may roll up the sidewalks pretty early here, and it may even fine you if you spit out your gum, but if you had to choose anywhere in Asia you would want to be caught in a typhoon, it would be Singapore. Trust me, the head of Civil Defense here is not simply someone's college roommate.
Indeed, Singapore believes so strongly that you have to get the best-qualified and least-corruptible people you can into senior positions in the government, judiciary and civil service that its pays its prime minister a salary of $1.1 million a year. It pays its cabinet ministers and Supreme Court justices just under $1 million a year, and pays judges and senior civil servants handsomely down the line.
From Singapore's early years, good governance mattered because the ruling party was in a struggle for the people's hearts and minds with the Communists, who were perceived to be both noncorrupt and caring - so the state had to be the same and more.
Even after the Communists faded, Singapore maintained a tradition of good governance because as a country of only four million people with no natural resources, it had to live by its wits. It needed to run its economy and schools in a way that would extract the maximum from each citizen, which is how four million people built reserves of $100 billion.
"In the areas that are critical to our survival, like Defense, Finance and the Ministry of Home Affairs, we look for the best talent," said Kishore Mahbubani, dean of the Lee Kwan Yew School of Public Policy. "You lose New Orleans, and you have 100 other cities just like it. But we're a city-state. We lose Singapore and there is nothing else. ... [So] the standards of discipline are very high. There is a very high degree of accountability in Singapore."
When a subway tunnel under construction collapsed here in April 2004 and four workers were killed, a government inquiry concluded that top executives of the contracting company should be either fined or jailed.
The discipline that the cold war imposed on America, by contrast, seems to have faded. Last year, we cut the National Science Foundation budget, while indulging absurd creationist theories in our schools and passing pork-laden energy and transportation bills in the middle of an energy crisis.
We let the families of the victims of 9/11 redesign our intelligence organizations, and our president and Congress held a midnight session about the health care of one woman, Terri Schiavo, while ignoring the health crisis of 40 million uninsured. Our economy seems to be fueled lately by either suing each other or selling each other houses. Our government launched a war in Iraq without any real plan for the morning after, and it cut taxes in the middle of that war, ensuring that future generations would get the bill.
Speaking of Katrina, Sumiko Tan, a columnist for the Sunday edition of The Straits Times in Singapore, wrote: "We were shocked at what we saw. Death and destruction from natural disaster is par for the course. But the pictures of dead people left uncollected on the streets, armed looters ransacking shops, survivors desperate to be rescued, racial divisions - these were truly out of sync with what we'd imagined the land of the free to be, even if we had encountered homelessness and violence on visits there. ... If America becomes so unglued when bad things happen in its own backyard, how can it fulfill its role as leader of the world?"
Janadas Devan, a Straits Times columnist, tried to explain to his Asian readers how the U.S. is changing. "Today's conservatives," he wrote, "differ in one crucial aspect from yesterday's conservatives: the latter believed in small government, but believed, too, that a country ought to pay for all the government that it needed.
"The former believe in no government, and therefore conclude that there is no need for a country to pay for even the government that it does have. ... [But] it is not only government that doesn't show up when government is starved of resources and leached of all its meaning. Community doesn't show up either, sacrifice doesn't show up, pulling together doesn't show up, 'we're all in this together' doesn't show up."
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http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/14/o...i=5070&emc=eta1
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Sn00py
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From New Zealand
Aug 2001
time: 13:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Tingkai
"Indeed, Singapore believes so strongly that you have to get the best-qualified and least-corruptible people you can into senior positions in the government, judiciary and civil service."
Singapore is a one party-dictatorship with rampant nepotism, and the judiciary is the lap dog for the party.
The prime minister just happens to be the old dictator's son.
Other members of the old dictator's family have been appointed to high level positions throughout the government.
The only thing going for the party dictatorship is that they realize they can become richer by making the city richer. |
Dude, when you see why LKY did what he did, then you don't see him as a dictator. He is one of the worlds greatest leaders.
When I first heard that his son was now in power, I was suspicuious, but now that I know him better, I understand why he is where he is.
See, now I realise, that Singapore wants the same mind-set as LKY, his son has that quality, Singaporeans are afraid of change, and why change anyway? Singapore is successful, it is progressing just fine.
The voting is not rigged; people just don't vote for what they don't know, they know LKY's son, they know LKY, so they vote for that, its just simple.
Also, between Singapores "dictatorship" and America's Democracy, I choose Singapore.
Freedom and stupidity should not collide. America let that one go.
Oh and I said it once, I'll say it again, America will fall under its own weight. It's the natural way of the world. 
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Sn00py
Dude, when you see why LKY did what he did, then you don't see him as a dictator. He is one of the worlds greatest leaders.
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Dude, regardless of what he did, he was still a dictator.
He certainly wasn't one of the world's greatest leaders. He was just a decent mayor.
quote:
Originally posted by Sn00py
When I first heard that his son was now in power, I was suspicuious, but now that I know him better, I understand why he is where he is.
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He's there because daddy put him there. So far it looks like he's not that stupid, but other than that, there's not much to praise him for.
quote:
Originally posted by Sn00py
Singapore is successful, it is progressing just fine.
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Not really. Back in the early 90s, Singapore had a better economy than Hong Kong. Now, Hong Kong is way ahead in terms of GDP/capita while Singapore has stagnated.
quote:
Originally posted by Sn00py
The voting is not rigged; people just don't vote for what they don't know,
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Well exactly. The government keeps the opposition muzzled. The government-controlled newspapers prevent the opposition from stating its view. The courts are used to muzzle the opposition. The opposition is denied licences to hold rallies. It's soft-touch oppression, but still oppression.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Az
quote:
He certainly wasn't one of the world's greatest leaders. He was just a decent mayor. |
umm, what? if you judge his city's progress, he was helluva lot more than just a decent mayor.
And wrt dictatorship, founding fathers have that tendency.
You can't deny that he did a great job, even though I would NEVER EVER consider moving to singapore. |
Sure he did some good things, but Singapore is just a city. It didn't face the problems that existed in many other countries. When the city became independent, it already had a strong business base, a developed middle and upper class, and educated people for its civil service. That automatically gave it a strong starting point.
At the same time, Singapore never had to deal with war, unlike many other countries in East Asia and around the world. Its infrastructure requirements were relatively low.
Hong Kong was able to outgrow Singapore without having the draconian measures that LKY used.
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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
While all those are true, Lee Kuan Yew is still a brilliant politician. For example, there are multiple parties yet the PAP still dominates every single election. I can't recall they were ever accused of rigging an election, either. |
Rare praise from a citizen of (reddish) China for such an obviously capitalist running dog lackey. 
Couldn't be admiration for his party's dominance of Singaporean politics through the clever abuse of the legal system and judiciary to bankrupt and neutralize and imprison politicians who try to exercise free speech, could it ?
quote:
J.B Jeyaretnam, one of Singapore's most famous opposition politicians, remains a bankrupt after losing a series of long-running legal battles against Lee, Goh and others.
Mr Lee is believed to be the most successful individual defamation litigant in history. In at least nine separate actions since the 1970s, he has been awarded more than $A3 million by the Singapore courts.
Amnesty International and other international organisations have accused Singapore's political elite of using defamation laws to undermine struggling opposition parties and crush free speech.
According to an AFP report, PAP leaders are suing the veteran politician for allegedly defaming them at an election rally on the eve of polling day at the 1997 polls.
Apart from Lee, the island's former prime minister, other leaders who have filed the defamation suits include Lee's son Deputy Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong, Defence Minister Tony Tan, and Education Minister Teo Chee Hean.
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http://www.singapore-window.org/sw05/050315af.htm
Free speech- it's a decadent Western thang....
quote:
Singapore opposition leader jailed
By Angela Pagano
3 March 1999
Singapore opposition politician Chee Soon Juan has been jailed for 12 days after a court found him guilty on February 24 of speaking in public without a permit and he refused to pay the S$2,500 fine.
Chee has already served a seven-day sentence for refusing to pay a fine of $1,400 earlier this month for a similar offence. Under Singaporean law, a fine of more than $2,000 disqualifies anyone from participating in an election for five years.
His speech to crowds of about 600 included quotes from the Singapore constitution guaranteeing freedom of speech. He was charged under the Public Entertainment Act, which prohibits anyone from speaking in public without a permit. His SDP colleague Wong Hong Toy also faces a fine or jail for assisting Chee by adjusting a microphone and speaker.
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How to weight the case in your favour:
quote:
Human Rights First was particularly concerned that Dr. Chee did not have legal representation today at the appeals hearing or when the case was initially heard last August in a closed door session before a judicial officer in chambers.
“Justice must not only be done, but should manifestly be seen to be done,” said John Spender, an Australian lawyer and Queen’s Counsel who observed the appeal on Human Rights First’s behalf. “It is deeply disturbing to see in court the two most powerful men in Singapore represented by a battery of legal talent, and Dr. Chee facing alone the task of representing himself and answering their arguments.”
Dr. Chee’s application to the High Court to have Stuart Littlemore, an Australian lawyer and Queen’s Counsel and specialist in defamation law, represent him in the case was rejected in January 2002 because of criticisms he made of the Singaporean judiciary over four years earlier. In April of 2002, the court also turned down Chee’s application to be represented by Martin Lee Q.C. of Hong Kong and Henric Nicholas Q.C. of Australia.
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http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/med...alerts/0212.htm
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:37
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quote:
Originally posted by joncha
 Summary? |
the one city in the US with the greatest reputation for laxness, corruption, and being third world like, one that had the poverty and hostility to social reform of the South, but without the Protestant religiosity of the South, located in perhaps the most corrupt state in the US (remember "vote for the crook - its important") happens to be far less disciplined, and more disorganized, than the most tight run, spit and polish, city state in the world.
In other news, its expected to snow this winter.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
Yes, Singapore's quasi-fascist. It's Democracy with East Asian Characteristics.
Lee's government is no different, in that respect, from the successful governments of Taiwan and the leadership of former SKorean president PARK Chung-hee--strongman tactics with a semi-democratic face work for a populace used to authoritarian regimes.
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Bullocks. Taiwan and South Korea are both multiparty states where different parties have been in power.
Singapore is just a dictatorship.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Az
Many a leader have mismanaged assets. That's the test of a leader, the use of his human and natural resources. |
Not really when it comes to city-states. Look at Hong Kong.
Hong Kong has never had a dictatorship, colonial rule was close, but still no dictatorship. Hong Kong has a free society, with a free press. And Hong Kong has done better than Singapore.
Taiwan and South Korea have achieved a hell of a lot more than Singapore, and those countries have had to maintain large standing armies.
LKY is extremely over rated.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
Tingkai: You didn't read the rest of the comment. That's all I have to say about that.
(Besides, Taiwan and SKorea have both had 20 more years to work on their transformation.) |
I read your comment. For South Korea, you were citing a government that existed 15 years ago. South Korea has a full democracy as does Taiwan.
Singapore has had the same amount of time to become democratic as Taiwan and South Korea. Yet, Singapore is still a one-party dictatorship.
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15-09-2005 08:21
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