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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:37
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Yes. I do want to puke in face of the artist and the sculpture. Does that make me a philistine?
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C0ckney
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Big Up The Macedonian Massive
Apr 2000
time: 05:37
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they should have put something better looking and more tasteful on that empty plinth. like a giant turd...
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Peter Triggs
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Gone Fishin, Canada
Jan 2000
time: 05:37
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quote:
Alison Lapper Pregnant by Marc Quinn and Hotel for the Birds by Thomas Schütte beat four other nominations.
The winners were selected by the Fourth Plinth Commissioning Group after taking comments from the public, who saw scale models at the National Gallery.
They will be shown for up to 18 months each from spring 2005, starting with Mr Quinn's disabled, pregnant woman.
The other shortlisted contenders included a car covered with bird droppings and two life-size Tomahawk cruise missiles.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3511968.stm
I would have voted for the car covered with bird droppings.
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MosesPresley
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quote:
Originally posted by Patroklos
She is ugly. |
What's ugly about her?
quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
the FDR memorial in DC has a sculpture of FDR in his chair. Nothing unheroic about it.
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I like that. This sculpture is heroic. It took courage to portray herself in such an honest manner. Especially when I am sure she knew what the public's initial reaction would be.
quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
Is this about disability, or about what a nude sculpture should be?
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I definitely think the sculpture raises that question. Nude art, imo, is supposed to make us look at ourselves honestly.
quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
So what IS the function of a nude sculpture today? |
The same as it was in the Renaissance, to portray the beauty and the human race's transcendence over nature.
This is a bold sculpture. In a generation or two, when people pass by this sculpture, they won't give it a second glance. What concerns me is what will happen to the sculpture in the short term. Some public modern art, the Clown Ballerina by Borofsky comes to mind, is vandalized by the public. In the case of the Borofsky, I can see why. It is supposed to be humorous, but it comes off as monstrosity and an eyesore.
 Attachment: 180px-ballerina_clown_by_jonathon_borofsky.jpg
This has been downloaded 247 time(s).
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:37
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quote:
Originally posted by MosesPresley
The same as it was in the Renaissance, to portray the beauty and the human race's transcendence over nature.
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what is human beauty? Now mark me, the Hebraic civilization I have one foot in considers physical beauty illusory, and true beauty, including true female beauty, to be internal. But that is NOT the dominant tradition in western art - not to the Greeks, or the Renaissance Italians. That tradition would hold having two arms to be more perfect than not having two arms, I think.
Arguably much of modern art threw off this sensibility, and focused more on inner truth. A victory for Jerusalem over Athens, then?
"Grace is deceitful, and beauty is vain; but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised. "
Of course among the vulgar masses at my Synagogue and elsewhere, the majority of Jews are quite Hellenized on this matter.
Last edited by lord of the mark on 15-09-2005 at 20:02
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MosesPresley
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
what is human beauty? Now mark me, the Hebraic civilization I have one foot in considers physical beauty illusory, and true beauty, including true female beauty, to be internal. But that is NOT the dominant tradition in western art - not to the Greeks, or the Renaissance Italians. That tradition would hold having two arms to be more perfect than not having two arms, I think.
Arguably much of modern art threw off this sensibility, and focused more on inner truth. A victory for Jerusalem over Athens, then? |
His sculpture definitely owes much more to modern sensibility than to the Renaissance.
Jean Dubuffet a practionier of l' art brut considered the Renaissance (classical) concept of beauty "a specious and depressing notion, a legacy of Greece that had lost its value."
He is definitely referencing the classical concept of beauty and is challenging it on its own terms, by using its techniques and materials.
Jerusalem: 1
Greece: 0
edit: gender of artist corrected.
Last edited by MosesPresley on 15-09-2005 at 21:25
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Zulu Elephant
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I quite like it and have a hard time understanding why seemingly normal people are so against it. They seem to be the same people who complain that their local community centre have to 'waste' money on wheelchair ramps. "No one disabled ever goes there anyway"
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MosesPresley
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I just read Peter Triggs link. This is a temporary exhibit. That's kind of a shame, but it will make the area more vibrant and interesting.
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:37
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quote:
Originally posted by MosesPresley
This is going way out on a conceptual limb here, but presuming that GB is a democracy and again presuming that everyone is equal in a democracy, so then doesn't it follow that a regular citizen deserves equal time on a pedestal. |
Depends on your understanding of democracy. There is an understanding that says people are equal in their political rights, but that its still appropriate to recognize distinction.
"For I agree with you that there is a natural aristocracy among men. The grounds of this are virtue and talents. Formerly bodily powers gave place among the aristoi. But since the invention of gunpowder has armed the weak as well as the strong with missile death, bodily strength, like beauty, good humor, politeness and other accomplishments, has become but an auxiliary ground of distinction. There is also an artificial aristocracy founded on wealth and birth, without either virtue or talents; for with these it would belong to the first class. The natural aristocracy I consider as the most precious gift of nature for the instruction, the trusts, and government of society. And indeed it would have been inconsistent in creation to have formed man for the social state, and not to have provided virtue and wisdom enough to manage the concerns of the society. May we not even say that that form of government is the best which provides the most effectually for a pure selection of these natural aristoi into the offices of government? The artificial aristocracy is a mischievous ingredient in government, and provision should be made to prevent it's ascendancy. "
Thomas Jefferson
Last edited by lord of the mark on 15-09-2005 at 22:01
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MosesPresley
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quote:
Originally posted by Patroklos
Just because someone thinks she is ugly doesn't mean they think they are not human. Alot of people who are not disabled are ugly to, and still human.
She is ugly. I would not want the sculture displayed for the same reason I don't like ugly buildings. |
A building can be ugly. It is not human it is a construction. Many constructions are ugly. Calling a person ugly dehumanizes them.
Ugliness in a human being is completely different. I do not want to put words in your mouth, but I think the sexuality is what you find ugly. This is a statue of a deformed woman in a sexual state; she is naked and pregnant.
It raises a difficult question; can a deformed woman have sex appeal? The obvious answer is yes. She is pregnant. Now if this sculpture starts a strange little film show in the observer’s head, then that shows more about that person than it does the art.
quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
The Greeks did have nude art, as a celebration of the perfection of human beauty. The Renaissance picked up and ran with that idea, and it was with us until the age of abstract art.
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Camille Paglia in Sexual Persona says the Greek ideal of beauty was homoerotic. They idealized the beautiful boy. This concept carried over into the Renaissance and into contemporary advertising. We now have the ideal of the beautiful girl. I suppose this is due to the liberation of women. Maybe someone can help me out with this one.
Well-formed sexually appealing youths are the accepted cultural definition of human beauty. Ugliness begins when form departs from the youthful ideal.
I think abstract art ultimately failed, because of its inherent lack of humanity. Over time it became little more than pretty designs used to augment dehumanized architectures.
quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
Is this about disability, or about what a nude sculpture should be?
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I saw a woman on Jeopardy last night. She appeared ugly to me, but that was because of she had a Monica Lewinsky hairdo and was wearing a bizarre short-sleeved military styled blouse complete with epaulets. I am sure with a different hair-do and outfit; she would appear much more attractive.
This is why artists use nude subjects. Fashion is of the moment and confuses the issue. Nudity shows the truth. Past fashions become absurd by contemporary standards. Can you imagine Michelangelo’s David with a pair of pantaloons?
I do not think it is so much about disability as it is about the sexual acceptance of the disabled. This sculpture challenges accepted definitions of beauty and sexuality.
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15-09-2005 16:38
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