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My advice to anyone who wants to buy into this is don't 
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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.
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Deity, you broke the rules, you're out. End of story. How other groups and individuals prefer to play is irrelevant.
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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:12
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<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Curumbor Elendil on 02-07-2001 02:19 PM</font>
I think we'll need some more details to help y'all out. 
I think the war in simul thing can be resolved by moving to turn order during wars. Also you might want to make it so that you declare war a turn in advance before you can attack (no sneak attacks), then go by turn order if a lower color declares war on a higher, or by reverse turn order if a higher color declares war on a lower.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
This little stink arose, I suspect, out of the fact that war was never actually offocially declared. Horse accidentally sank one of Deity's boats and offered compensation. Deity didn't accept the compensation offer. Well, he didn't exactly reject it either. His response was a smiley face - as in  - which doesn't appear in my copy of the Acme Book of Approved Negotiating Techniques. Anyway, Horse seemed to take it - from Deity's lack of real response - that a state of war existed and proceeded to do a bit more plundering.
Once we'd all established that a state of war existed - and that, in itself, took longer than the 100 Years War - Deity insisted that the game go turn-based, on the basis that it was his policy not to fight wars in simul mode. Horse rejected that on the basis that it was only Deity's personal preference and not a pre-agreed game requirement. Votes were called for, abuse was hurled ...
And then things took a turn for the ... um ... truly farcical ...
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Re unit bribing: this should always be assumed to be allowed. City bribing is another thing.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
... Deity bribed a couple of Horse's units. Horse objected just a bit vociferously. Y'see, it's Horse's personal preference that unit bribing not be allowed. It gets bandied around before games, but it's never been officially agreed.
So, essentially, we have two players whose personal preferences - neither of them officially agreed between the group - have been booted up the date (an old-fashioned Oz euphemism for a kick up the Khyber).
<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>"Cheat calls"?
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>
Surely it doesn't take a lot of extrapolation?
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Founder, ACS Pedantry Institute
Founder, ACS Gourmet Recipe Exchange
Troll & Hydey Wrangler
Mono Rules!
#33984591
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As far as I am concerned, no unit bribe was agreed. In fact I won't play in games with unit bribe because I think its farcical. I've said it over and over again at the start of play and as far as I'm aware no-one has objected. So we better sort this out pronto.
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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Alexander's Horse (edited February 07, 2001).]</font>
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I really wish you'd spoken up sooner instead of dropping this bombshell now. I will not play in games with unit bribe so looks like my multiplayer career with the current group is over as of last night.
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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.
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It is a bombshell to me that you seem to have been playing under the impression that no bribing units was simply my preference and not an agreed rule. Perhaps this all solidified whilst you were in Italy.
I'm flabbergasted. And in terms of my dispute with Deity, it gives Deity a nice out. Your timing could not have been worse to bring this up.
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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.
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Should I be surprised that you like to pick at scabs War4?
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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.
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Of course the missing element here is that all players except one wanted the game to continue in simult, and he only kicked up a stink after being worsted in a couple of naval battles. Then of course things went from bad to worse.
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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.
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Actually I believe Deity knew full well the no unit bribe rule. The reason he pulled the bribery stunt was he had lost the argument over simult war in the prior turn and then took some heavy losses (2 tris, 2 caras) in the following turn. He then bribed my tri and chariot to give himself some leverage to re-open the simult war issue. Its as simple as that. The evidence for this is that immediately after bribing and being called on it, he tried to link the settlement of the bribery issue with a renegotiation on, surprise, surprise, simult war. Its so transparent.
Btw, I'm coming last in this game so its hardly like I pose a major military threat to Deity, who happens to be coming first.
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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.
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I've just realised your interventions on this matter finny bear a remarkable likeness to real world Italian diplomacy. They can always be counted on to muddy the waters on just about any issue 
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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.
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Otoh, just don't play anymore. Saves a lot of drama and stoppages
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Chaos, panic and disorder - My work here is done.
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deity
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I think this post belongs in both of the threads discussing these issues...
------
I can honsetly say that, like finbar, I thought the only two rules agreed on that deviate from the normal game were No Alliance and No City Bribe of humans.
To get the Aussie group up again we need a vote to set rules for all our games in progress.
I vote for the above rules. They are standard throughout much of 1x1x civland.
As for SIMUL, well ALL our current games were started before we knew about SIMUL. I was the one that saved the TBS saves as SIMUL saves so that we could speed up our games. I have strssed all along that SIMUL during war is absurd and you miss out on all the fun by trying to cover so many areas of activity. So, as for ground rules ALL our current games that I am in were set up as TBS!
But, for the sake of the group I'll accept the vote on all these points.
Thanks for your efforts War4
If diplo-bribing of units is dis-allowed by this vote I'm happy in that particular game to go back a turn and disband the caras I lost if they still exist.
And allow AH to attack with that Chariot if he so desires.
Can't say fairer than that eh?
I guess the 5 regular Aussies are the ones to vote:
finbar
AHorse
Lowang
Hydey
deity
Also, I must suggest that this is a vote for what YOU want, not what you thought you were told was the rule.
As for scared AH, hmmmmm, try getting out of this...
You are trying to avoid playing me now but I really want to keep playing you.... no matter what...
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*deity of THE DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by deity (edited February 08, 2001).]</font>
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07-02-2001 18:46
have fun fellas
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