21-09-2005 02:48									#1
	NASA to return to the Moon Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

There's probably a thread about this somewhere, but I haven't seen it.

BBC Link

Your thoughts?

My gut instinct is 'waste of money'. This mission, not space exploration in general.

Go straight to Mars, no detours.

	21-09-2005 02:53									#2
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My gut instict is "cool as f*ck! "

On the other hand it is financial idiocy, but then most things that are "cool as f*ck" are.

NASA

	21-09-2005 02:55									#3
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It's retro-cool.

	21-09-2005 02:57									#4
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About time, about f'ing time. It'll be 48 years since anybody was last there.

Nice to have a guy in the White House to push these things forward.

I've seen NASA's presentation of the programme at their website, and as always, I'm highly excited about it all. I'm just a bit worried that it is open to cuts and downscaling, lowering of ambition - like Apollo - once a new administration needs the money, or feels the need to change the focus of NASA. These things have an awful long implementation phase, that's the basic condition, but it still worries me.

The biggest challenge is probably keeping the public interest going along the way - and not least once the first objectives (lunar landings) have been achieved.

	21-09-2005 03:10									#5
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Personally, I think NASA's manned program should be put on ice.

Failing that, I don't mind some exploration and the Moon and Mars are good candidates. That said, I think they're going about it all wrong. They should be looking at ways to encourage a non-NASA thriving space economic and engineering ecosystem. This would help them do what they want to do much more cheaply. But the plan they've got basically just picks back up with Apollo 18 and crowds out this potential ecosystem.

	21-09-2005 04:43									#6
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So 50 years after NASA went to the moon, NASA are .... going to the moon.

	21-09-2005 05:13									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Winston Nice to have a guy in the White House to push these things forward.

You think Bush really gives a **** about space exploration, except to the extent that he can use it for PR or a distraction?

	21-09-2005 05:29									#8
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The only Pres. that we have had that care anything for space was LBJ. Kennedy went because of the Russian. Nixon hated space and stop it after Apollo 17. Ford was not around long enough. Carter wanted peace in the world. Reagan said one time he was to old so forget it. Bush 1 had a war to fight. Clinton wanted more woman to screw. Bush 2 wanted Saddam dead for trying to kill Dad. So here we are.

	21-09-2005 05:51									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Verto You think Bush really gives a **** about space exploration, except to the extent that he can use it for PR or a distraction?

Yes I do. His change of direction at NASA specifically towards this program is the reason you have this thread in which to show your ignorance about his motives.

	21-09-2005 05:56									#10
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He-he.

Attachment: clay bennett - mission to mars.jpg
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	21-09-2005 06:14									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Winston Yes I do. His change of direction at NASA specifically towards this program is the reason you have this thread in which to show your ignorance about his motives.

Oh give me a break. The man just has an insatiable need to spend money. Not that this is necessarily a bad program to spend money on, but to think that Bush has any kind of interest in space exploration is stupid.

	21-09-2005 07:54									#12
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The reason we stopped going to the moon was the fact that there is no reason to go there.

	21-09-2005 08:24									#13
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The establishment of a semi permanent base is reson enough for me. Over time. it will hopefully begin to build some industry and begin to realize the vast potential of space exploration.

	21-09-2005 08:47									#14
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Are we going to do it for real this time?

	21-09-2005 09:18									#15
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Well, with the way money is being thrown around for projects outside of the regular budget, for once funding may not be a problem.

	21-09-2005 14:32									#16
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quote: Are we going to do it for real this time?

And for the first time..

	21-09-2005 14:55									#17
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Spend the money on a Space Elevator, it is becoming technically feasable. It is just outside our capability and we now could theoretically do it. Cutting the cost of Orbital Improvement by half.

	21-09-2005 15:46									#18
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Doesn't anybody realise Bush is trying to claim the moon as US territory ?
I wonder what mr China will say when he finds out.

	21-09-2005 16:06									#19
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I'll be dancing in the streets when US/China/Russia withdraws from the Outer Space Treaty and claims territory on the Moon.

	21-09-2005 17:45									#20
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104 Billion? You could get to MARS for under half that (according to one proposal called Mars Direct).

	21-09-2005 20:44									#21
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Still cheaper than going to Iran or North Korea though.

	21-09-2005 21:42									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Solomwi Are we going to do it for real this time?

No, it will be just like the first time -- an illusion consisting of smoke and mirrors.

	21-09-2005 21:46									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Odin 104 Billion? You could get to MARS for under half that (according to one proposal called Mars Direct).

'Mars Direct'? Even the name sounds like a dodgy travel company!

	21-09-2005 21:50									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Vanguard The reason we stopped going to the moon was the fact that there is no reason to go there.

There´s a good reason (for scientists).
You could build a telescope there,
larger than the space telescopes currently used,
but as well as Hubbles, not influenced by any kind of atmosphere

	21-09-2005 21:53									#25
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Long term we need to launch from either there or orbit. The cost in money/weight/fuel to get off the Earth is astronomical (pun indended)

	21-09-2005 22:44									#26
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Actually, the cost for fuel and other incidentals to get off Earth (e.g., helium) isn't much. About $10 - $20 per pound for a kerosene/liquid oxygen rocket. The cost for fuel for the ground to Mars would probably be about $40 per pound of payload. All in all, something of a rounding error among the other costs involved.

	21-09-2005 22:48									#27
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You've still got to (pay to) build a rocket big enough to carry all the fuel/payload/itself into orbit.

Even if the cost of the fuel isn't much per se, it creates a lot of cost by its enforced use.

	21-09-2005 22:50									#28
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Actually, the cost for fuel and other incidentals to get off Earth (e.g., helium) isn't much. About $10 - $20 per pound for a kerosene/liquid oxygen rocket. The cost for fuel for the ground to Mars would probably be about $40 per pound of payload. All in all, something of a rounding error among the other costs involved.

But the cost in Fuel is immense,
which is why long range manned missions (to mars for example) should better started from Orbit or Luna than from ground, after all the tonnage of the fuel the Spaceship needs to escape earths gravity well could better be used for further mission payload

	21-09-2005 22:51									#29
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A great troll from I think usenet "apollo 18 to launch in 2018".

we still have those things just taking up space in Huntsville.

	21-09-2005 23:04									#30
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quote: But the cost in Fuel is immense, which is why long range manned missions (to mars for example) should better started from Orbit or Luna than from ground, after all the tonnage of the fuel the Spaceship needs to escape earths gravity well could better be used for further mission payload

Actually, it's a misconception that going to Mars from the moon would save fuel. Going from the Earth to the moon requires more energy than going from the Earth to Mars.

In any event, the cost in fuel isn't immense.