22-09-2005 08:53									#1
	SMAC-style UN Council confirmed on GameSHOUT Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Hi guys, according to info on the CFC, Sid Meier has confirmed in his GameSHOUT interview that the nation which heads the UN (i.e. Secretary General) can call for votes on issues like Civics changes, embargoes and the like-I am not certain if they are 'binding', but I suspect that a nation which ignores a resolution will probably come under 'diplomatic sanction' (rep loss, possible action against them etc etc).

Also, Soren teasingly came into the GameSHOUT thread and mentioned the following:

quote: yeah, I was nervous too. There's a lot more to talk about diplomacy (trade routes, embargoes, war plans, permanent alliances, etc.) but it just vanishes from one's mind on live radio!

I don't know about you guys, but the diplomatic/trade side of this game is sounding like it is really gonna be the 'killer improved feature' for me.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

	22-09-2005 09:17									#2
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yes, Yes, YES!!!





Holy crap. When people talked about what they wanted from Civ4, I held out the futile hope that they would take the best elements from SMAC ("flavor", SE, UN) and add the best elements of Civ3 (resources).

And I'll be goddamned if it doesn't sound like that is ex-freakin-actly what they're doing!

	22-09-2005 09:26									#3
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it just keeps getting better

	22-09-2005 11:39									#4
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that was a entertaining interview

just to short in time, and a little choppy despite the DSL bandwith

	22-09-2005 11:42									#5
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I foresee little sleep in the coming weeks

	22-09-2005 12:16									#6
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quote: Secretary General can call for votes on issues like Civics changes, embargoes and the like

this was not in the smac UN, was it?

	22-09-2005 12:19									#7
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It was-though in SMAC it was called the Planetary Council-but you had voting on key issues, and lots of bribery/schmoozing to get a favourable vote on an issue you felt strongly about (like becoming head of the council !) I was always suprised this didn't make it into Civ3 actually, but at least it seems to have finally made it in to Civ4 !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

	22-09-2005 12:40									#8
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Wow, that's awesome news!

I am just wondering if there will be a lot of use for this, since I suppose it will be more or less an end game feature (unless they introduce this kind of thing earlier than historically).

	22-09-2005 13:20									#9
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* Nikolai crying in happiness for these news.

	22-09-2005 13:23									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Martinus Wow, that's awesome news! I am just wondering if there will be a lot of use for this, since I suppose it will be more or less an end game feature (unless they introduce this kind of thing earlier than historically).

Even if it is limited to the late game its got to be a massive improvement to the late game tedium of Civ 3


I think Diplomacy has been improved throughout the game and this is merely the icing on the cake, a very tasty and delicious cake

	22-09-2005 13:26									#11
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Sounds wonderful!

	22-09-2005 13:36									#12
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I thought in Smac you could only vote for someone to win a diplomatic victory...

	22-09-2005 13:46									#13
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy I thought in Smac you could only vote for someone to win a diplomatic victory...

No way. There was a number of proposals you could vote for, including lowering and raising the global sea levels or salvaging the Unity Core (which was extra cash).

I wonder what kind of resolutions could be passed in CivIV (besides those already mentioned)?

	22-09-2005 13:54									#14
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Peace keeping missions.

	22-09-2005 14:29									#15
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Maybe that was in one of the SMAC expansions? (never bought those)

	22-09-2005 14:41									#16
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy Maybe that was in one of the SMAC expansions? (never bought those)

Nope. I never bought the expansions and all those options were there.

	22-09-2005 14:53									#17
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There was only one SMAC expansion, and all the options was in the original game AFAIR.

	22-09-2005 14:54									#18
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Cybershy, the funny thing here is that you are thinking of Civ3-not SMAC ! Everyone's main complaint with Civ3 was how the UN was not only worse than in Civ2 (at least it gave you a rep boost and a way of declaring war in democracy), but that it also didn't include the features of the Planetary Council of SMAC. Instead Civ3 UN only allowed you to vote for Secretary General (i.e. diplomatic victory!) In SMAC, there wasn't even a diplomatic victory!!

Anyway, if the UN leader is elected before the end of the game, then does this mean that the diplomatic victory conditions have changed as well? I, for one, certainly hope so !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

	22-09-2005 15:10									#19
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Ah, that's true. it was civ3 that ended with the diplomatic victory that way! I turned diplomatic victory off ever since I laughed off my head after seeing that

	22-09-2005 15:15									#20
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quote: In SMAC, there wasn't even a diplomatic victory!!

Yes it was. I won that war a few times myself in SMAC. "Unite behind me as supreme leader", remember? Now, the way it was done wasn't good, you had to reduce the other powers to a minimum to get the 2/3 of the votes you needed for yourself, as few would vote for you, but it was there.

	22-09-2005 15:23									#21
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It would probably be good to mention for anyone who missed it that the interview is available in MP3 format here. Some interesting stuff in there.

	22-09-2005 16:06									#22
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quote: SMAC-style UN Council confirmed

but you'll have to built the UN wonder first (so it will be late-game oriented)...

	22-09-2005 16:13									#23
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This is great news! I love SMAC, and Im glad this element is getting into CIV.

Lets keep our fingers crossed for a SMAC II

	22-09-2005 16:34									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Nikolai quote: In SMAC, there wasn't even a diplomatic victory!! Yes it was. I won that war a few times myself in SMAC. "Unite behind me as supreme leader", remember? Now, the way it was done wasn't good, you had to reduce the other powers to a minimum to get the 2/3 of the votes you needed for yourself, as few would vote for you, but it was there.

Not to mention that factions could actually decide to defy the UN decision under certain orders.
This are excellent news.

	22-09-2005 16:41									#25
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OK guys, here is a little more detail for you-from the 'horses mouth', as it were.
Apparently the UN is still tied to the diplomatic victory-though how this will work now is not certain.

There are apparently around 10 'Resolutions' which the Secretary General can call a vote on (though I wouldn't be at all suprised if this gets expanded in Mods and XP packs).
Some of the ones Soren-or Sid??-mentioned were:

-Single Currency.
-Free Trade Agreement (Open Borders for all nations).
-Global Emancipation.
-Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

So, it sounds like it will work a LOT like SMAC-council but, if anything, the amount of things you can vote on has been expanded.
Other info provided in the interview was:

-AI civs can be randomised via changing AI aggression levels or via 'Randomised Leader Personalities'-in the game setup, or through the XML files.

-Caste System (Labour Civic) allows unlimited specialisation in all categories.

-A Naval unit can apparently halt all production coming to a city-from all sea squares-by placing itself in front of said city. They can also destroy sea-based tile improvements and prevent harvesting of sea-based resources (whales, fish, oil for instance). So navies are slightly more important, but still not enough IMO (unless there is still more stuff they aren't telling us-which is very likely).

-Spies are invisible units which you can 'plant in enemy cities' to get regular updates on what that city is doing.

-Spies can also be used to steal plans (get 2-turn LOS to that city), destroy improvements (tile and city, I think) and destroy production-amongst other things.

-Confirmed that there is a largely expanded table of things which can be traded/negotiated.

-Confirmed that Agendas are MUCH more important to AI civs than ever before. Also, some civs will simply follow the lead of the nation with the strongest militaries, some will follow the wealthiest or most culturally/technologically superior nation. Others will be more 'idealistic', with the AI civs following the nation(s) with the right civic choices and/or religion.

I know that a lot of this info is not new, but I hope you find it enlightening.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

	22-09-2005 16:51									#26
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Speaking of which, I hope the "unconditional surrender" option a'la SMAC (aka vassalage) is also part of diplomacy model - I loved keeping Zaharov around as my "*****" after beating him up.

	22-09-2005 16:53									#27
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This is all looking superb, everything that was missing from civ 3, cant wait now

Id best start penning a letter to the Wife

	22-09-2005 16:53									#28
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quote: It was-though in SMAC it was called the Planetary Council-but you had voting on key issues, and lots of bribery/schmoozing to get a favourable vote on an issue you felt strongly about ...

Now I have never played SMAC, but from what I remember of the gameshout podcast is that the AI will be much less subject to effective bribery, being more loyal to their own interests (e.g., religion & civic choices). I do NOT remember if this was directly tied to the UN statement.

	22-09-2005 17:12									#29
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quote: Now I have never played SMAC, but from what I remember of the gameshout podcast is that the AI will be much less subject to effective bribery, being more loyal to their own interests (e.g., religion & civic choices). I do NOT remember if this was directly tied to the UN statement.

That only means that we will have to spare a few extra gold coins. Everybody has its price.

	22-09-2005 18:07									#30
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quote: -A Naval unit can apparently halt all production coming to a city-from all sea squares-by placing itself in front of said city. They can also destroy sea-based tile improvements and prevent harvesting of sea-based resources (whales, fish, oil for instance). So navies are slightly more important, but still not enough IMO (unless there is still more stuff they aren't telling us-which is very likely).

I think this is a huge change. I was always disappointed with the naval power in the previous Civ's.