20-05-1999 03:26									#1
	THREAD MASTER'S WAR ROOM: Suggestions for Making the List/Running the Forum Full PM-box? Change here!

Welcome to our new home! All the thanks again go to Mark. I've never seen a site where our suggestions are taken to this level of service.

Although this split to "The List of Ideas for Firaxis" (thanks for that, too, Mark) HAS created in essence a third forum, SMAC was never really the right place (I admit), and the General Section should still be monitored very closely by the Thread Masters. This forum here is just a convenient place to collect the ideas, and hopefully more and more people will understand that this is indeed the place to come if they have ideas they'd like Firaxis to see.

At any rate, this is the War Room. Let's hear the battle plans!

	20-05-1999 03:51									#2
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Just a note: The SMAC Civ3 threads are dying. This is basicly the second room.

Battle plan: We collect ideas, and then E-Mail them to BR at the end of June, and once every month after that. Genius, no?

	20-05-1999 08:39									#3
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Yin, are we to send a compilation of all the saved forum postings, or write up a summary, both? And has anyone noticed, we always here from Brian(not that its bad ), I wish the legendary Sid Meier would stop in to say hi!

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"I think you're all f*cked in the head!"
Chevy Chase-Nat'l Lampoon's Vacation.

[This message has been edited by Pythagoras (edited May 19, 1999).]


[Note: This message has been edited by yin26]

	20-05-1999 08:48									#4
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Pythagoras: "are we to send a compilation of all the saved forum postings, or write up a summary, both?"

I've been working under the assumption that we should be working toward providing the best summary we can, with enough material to adequately explain an idea, but getting rid of anything superfluous, unclear, or unnecessary. We're sort of working as filters so that Brian can just absorb the important stuff. If he wanted everything he could just read the forums himself... At least that's what I've been assuming.


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CIV3-THE MASTER LIST-TECHNOLOGY "THREAD MASTER"

	20-05-1999 08:50									#5
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By the way, what's the process for resolving technical difficulties around here? There seems to be a problem with my technology thread . Is it just send mail to MarkG?


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CIV3-THE MASTER LIST-TECHNOLOGY "THREAD MASTER"

	20-05-1999 09:10									#6
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Pythagoras (Everybody):

I write for a living, mainly speeches. And if I've learned anything it's that you have to know your audience. No matter how important YOU think your points are, if you can't convey them properly to the audience, you might as well sit down and be quiet.

Having said that, and having worked a little bit with Brian in the past, I know that he wants this material to be as "clean" as we can make it. This does not mean we should only bullet our ideas, but we should also clarify as needed. This might require a bit of prose on our part, but as we come closer to sending the list, it will become apparent what needs elaboration and what can just be listed.

Octopus,

I'll do what I can about your thread. Otherwise I'll ask Mark.

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__________
"un"Officially Making Lists for Firaxis Since SMAC Enhancement 3!

	20-05-1999 09:18									#7
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Octopus,

I think I fixed it. Give it a try!

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**"un"Officially Making Lists for Firaxis Since SMAC Enhancement 3!**

	20-05-1999 10:54									#8
	Remove this text

Hey, Everybody:

I took out threads that we no longer needed, and I standardized thread titles. If you guys object to the titles, please give me a better system. I took out the (v1.0) stuff, but you should feel free to update the version number in your summary post as you open a new thread after it reaches 50 posts. Basically, I went for simple and consistent.

Am I missing anything?

	20-05-1999 15:31									#9
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Ralph wrote in the General Civ 2 forum that the Lists are too hard to read. He reccomended that each suggestion should consist of a title in CAPITALS and not more than a few lines of explanation. Long discussions should take place in the General forum.

	20-05-1999 20:11									#10
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Ecce Homo,

Thanks for the advice. It's hard to make the long discussions happen somewhere else, though. But, to your point, the Thread Masters will be summarizing the threads along the lines you mentioned once their threads reach 50 posts. So that should help.

	20-05-1999 20:49									#11
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Yin,

I think that you are right, people that post ideas should give as much of a description as needed, even if it may seem too long to some people. The reason is simple, the thread masters main job is to take all the suggestions and incorporate them into one clear concise list. This could be hard to do if the original description is not detailed enough to explain to us what the poster had in mind. I do think that some things make even long posts easier to read such as inerting blank lines between ideas and such.

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Frank Moore - Civ3 Player Interface Thread Master

	21-05-1999 02:29									#12
	Increase Your PM Length

I suggest that the Moderator (that's you Yin ) should be the one to start new threads once the old one is full. By doing this we ensure having:

- standard naming and numbering of the topics
- standard beginning post for each new topic
- standard final post for each full topic

Proposed items for the standard beginning post:

1) Have a link to the prior locked topic in the first post to a newly opened topic (Yin if you need help with the HTML to do this, just ask)

That way people could easily go back and read to their heart's content rather than solely relying on the summary posted by the T.M.

2) Have a link to the <A HREF=/forums/"/forums/Forum28/HTML/000016.html">MASTER LIST LAUNCH PAD</A> in the the first post of each new topic.

Hey! I worked hard (and continue to work hard) to make this a convenient way for getting around. I don't want it to get lost in the shuffle.

Proposed item for the standard final post:

1) A link to the newly created topic for those who are reading the posts in order.

Civ3 n ... Ted S.

[This message has been edited by tfs99 (edited May 20, 1999).]

	21-05-1999 02:38									#13
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It might behoove us to setup seperate SUMMARY topics from the main suggestion topics.

I can foresee the summaries themselves becoming fairly lengthy, thus increasing the download time and thereby defeating the purpose for closing long topics at 50 posts.

If summaries are seperated, a link to the summary could be included in a standard beginning post for a new topic as well.

Civ3 n ... Ted S.

	21-05-1999 02:48									#14
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The 2nd post in my thread is one I edit 3 times a day. This one includes all the ideas in the entire thread, by subject and by author.

This way it's pretty clear to get a good idea about the suggestions and ideas in that main-topic.

Just go into my thread, "City Improvements" and take a look at how I'm doing it. I think this works great.

	21-05-1999 03:09									#15
	Remove this text

tfs99: "I suggest that the Moderator (that's you Yin ) should be the one to start new threads once the old one is full."

I strongly disagree. If I am to be managing a thread, I like to be able to set the pace, etc. None of the "advantages" you mention require that a single person start a thread, they merely require that we agree on certain standards. I tried to encourage everybody to do that before, but nobody seemed interested.

I suggest that people consider what elements should be included in a standard template for the beginnings of new threads, post them here, and we can discuss them.

Currently, I believe that keeping the summaries in the discussion threads is the best approach. The summaries allow for good breakpoints in the discussion, which sometimes begin to meander, and refocus people on the task at hand, which is to gather and discuss a wide variety of suggestions.

For the naming convention, I intend to use a decimal numbering scheme to indicate major/minor revisions. I'll be posting a new summary later this evening.

Yin, can you switch the title on my thread back to v1.1? I think keeping the numbers straight will make it easier on posters. Version 1.0 of the threads were in the other forum.


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CIV3-THE MASTER LIST-TECHNOLOGY "THREAD MASTER"

	21-05-1999 03:14									#16
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Octopus,

Sure.

Might I add, Ted (everybody), that I can now change titles and so forth after they are created anyway, so all I need is feedback from you guys on how you want things. So, Thread Masters should still do all the hard work here! That's why I hired you.

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CIV3 DEVELOPMENT LIST COORDINATOR

**(un)Officially Making Lists for Firaxis Since SMAC Enhancement 3!**

[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited May 20, 1999).]

	21-05-1999 03:22									#17
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yin: Could you close Sing's units thread? I already made one with a summary of the last three threads.

DONE! *Yin*

[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited May 20, 1999).]

	21-05-1999 03:30									#18
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>>>>> Octopus

Re: who creates the new topic

Of course none of things I mention, require that one person create it.

However, one person is in a much better position to enforce standards without requiring that everyone know and get the UBB or HTML code "just right." And as you pointed out, no use in having standards if they are not kept, well, standard.

And since the moderator is the one responsible for locking the old thread, and the one who edits the topic subjects to be standard, it made sense for him to be the one to create a standard new topic "header".

If everyone is left to their own devices to implement the standard, Yin is still left in the position of doing all the cleanup work to bring topics up to par.

Re: having seperate summary areas

I was only thinking long term. If this project is going to go on for months, there are going to be quite a few summaries as time goes by. Seperate summary topics could easily accumulate fifty summaries each. (UNITS is on it's 4th topic already!)

Civ3 n ... Ted S.

	21-05-1999 03:43									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

"However, one person is in a much better position to enforce standards without requiring that everyone know and get the UBB or HTML code "just right.""

Post a template for people to cut and paste.

"And since the moderator is the one responsible for locking the old thread, and the one who edits the topic subjects to be standard, it made sense for him to be the one to create a standard new topic "header"."

No, it makes sense for us all to know what the right standards are, and just do it. There is unlikely to be a lot of "cleanup work". How many times do you think Yin will need to correct somebody before they get the drift?

"If everyone is left to their own devices to implement the standard, Yin is still left in the position of doing all the cleanup work to bring topics up to par."

If we can't trust the thread masters to implement even the most basic things like posting appropriate headers, then we have a bigger problem.

Yin has a big enough job. I, for one, do not want to have a thread started and "get off on the wrong foot" before I am ready for it. I see many drawbacks and almost no advantages to your proposal.


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CIV3-THE MASTER LIST-TECHNOLOGY "THREAD MASTER"

	21-05-1999 03:45									#20
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Ted,

My main reason for not wanted to start the titles myself is that I want your names, not mine to be the designated originator. Imagine a board filled with 'yin26'--creepy. You guys are doing the work. Your names should appear.

But the idea of a better place for summaries is appealing. Can everybody give me some feedback on how this can or should be done? Thanks Ted for the ideas.

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CIV3 DEVELOPMENT LIST COORDINATOR

**(un)Officially Making Lists for Firaxis Since SMAC Enhancement 3!**

	21-05-1999 03:55									#21
	Put an end to popups!

I just want to commend you guys... you're doing a great job from keeping this from turning into anarchy. Thanks.

	21-05-1999 04:00									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Someone start a thread for summaries. Everyone posts their latest summary, then when you do the next one, edit your post to fit it. We can bump it to the top every hour or so. This way, it won't be cluttered with posts. I can be the official bumper if you need me to.

	21-05-1999 04:01									#23
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yin? Er, hello. Enoch here. I've noticed there's a Technology topic, which is progressing nicely, but not a Future Technology topic. I get the sense that most of the people here would rather not have any future tech, but I'd like to get them talking about it. So I'd like official permission (or at least as official as things get around here) to start that topic. Yesno?

	21-05-1999 04:10									#24
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I'd like some future tech. I want the game to go to at least 2500 AD, so we need some future tech.

	21-05-1999 04:15									#25
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EnochF,

If you don't mind, I'd like to first invite Octopus do run that thread, since he is already doing the Tech thread. If he's too busy, though, you're the man! Thanks.

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CIV3 DEVELOPMENT LIST COORDINATOR

**(un)Officially Making Lists for Firaxis Since SMAC Enhancement 3!**

[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited May 20, 1999).]

	21-05-1999 04:19									#26
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>>>>> Yin26

I hear you. Folks here at Apolyton got their fill of seeing your name on topics weeks ago.

>>>>> Octopus

Easy there big fella. You've got eight arms. I've only got two.

Re: Standard Topic Headers

Cutting and pasting an HTML and/or UBB template is a great idea. I considered that myself, but could not figure a way to post the code here without trashing the HTML tags and UBB codes. Perhaps a template could be e-mailed. Or maybe there's a simple way to post that kinda stuff here.

I'm still not confident that all of us are gonna get it right. But trying it is an easy way to convince me I'm wrong!

Re: Topic Summaries

Basically there are four ways to go:

1) Post summaries when warranted in the "body" of a MASTER LIST topic

2) Post summaries (partial or comprehensive) whenever a "fresh" MASTER LIST topic is created

3) Post all summaries in a separate, but all encompassing, MASTER LIST SUMMARIES topic

4) Post summaries in summary topics each specifically devoted to different MASTER LIST topics

My opinion is #4 is the way to go. People could get to the specific summary topics through the standard header or the launch pad.

Civ3 n ... Ted S.

	21-05-1999 04:23									#27
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

O.K. We have some good ideas here on summaries. What do you guys think?

	21-05-1999 04:36									#28
	Inflate your Upload Space

I think we should summarize what's happened so far at the begginning of each new thread, but we should also do what I said before about a seperate thread. That way, if you want to see what people have said so far without wading through 50 posts, you can!


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-Civ3 Thread Master of OTHER and UNITS.
"We get the paperwork, you get the game!"

	21-05-1999 04:46									#29
	Inflate your Upload Space

Tell you what. When I check the board tomorrow morning, if Octopus hasn't started a Future Tech topic, I'll start one on my own. For now, I've gotta scram for the night...

	21-05-1999 05:30									#30
	Increase Your PM Length

I don't think that a separate "Future Technology" thread is a good idea. There are already enough cross-connections between various threads without making distinctions like this. If you want to ask the question "what time period should Civ III span" that sounds like an "Other" question, if you want to propose that a specific technology be included in the game, that is a "Technology" question. If there is a second "Future Technology" thread, there will be confusion, and countless "I just posted this in the other thread, but it applies here, too..." (even more than there are now, with our relatively distinct topics).

tfs99: Liberal use of &amplt; (less than) and &ampgt; (greater than) can make what you are trying to do easier. For example:

&lt;a href=/forums/Forum28/HTML/000014.html>Wow, a link!&lt;/a&gt

ought to look like this

<a href=/forums/Forum28/HTML/000014.html>Wow, a link</a>

If that wasn't clear:

When you type &amplt; it looks like this: &lt;
When you type &ampgt; it looks like this: &gt;

Speaking of standard headers, People should look at what I have at the beginning of Technology 1.1 (which I will repost when I summarize for Technology 1.2). I think we can use that as a starting point for our discussion of the standard opening (e.g. "you shouldn't have said that! That's horrible! You totally forgot about _____!" ). Either that, or make a proposal of your own.



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CIV3-THE MASTER LIST-TECHNOLOGY "THREAD MASTER"