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Eggman
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Well, yes, the Vikings really aren't a "civ" in the purest sense of the word. But they have better name recognition than the Swedes. Most people have heard of the Vikings and have some concept of what they did. I would bet big money that most people do not know that Sweden was ever a major power. Of course, in the US I would bet money that most people don't know where Europe is on the map, but that's another story.
Also, the Vikings are sort of a catch-all for all of Scandanavia. As I mentioned before, Denmark and especially Norway are long-shots at best.
Hopefully, there will be plenty of empty slots to fill with any civ you desire. ARE YOU LISTENING FIRAXIS? MORE CIV OPTIONS IS BETTER!
BTW, in Civ2 the Viking herald wore a horned helmet, did he not? They didn't wear those in real life - that's a movie invention. Or do I have that wrong?
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NotLikeTea
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HRM, NS, Canada
Apr 1999
time: 05:14
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The helmet brings up an interesting point...
I participate in an internet raytracing competition. In one round, a fellow did a scene featuring a sunset. He carefully researched astronomy to get the exact size of the sun in the sky, even accounting for factors like atmosphere. As accurate a sunset as is possible.
Now, when the results came in, he recieved the same comment over and over again: the sun is way too small. And it was true, it did look too small.
What does this have to do with Civ? Well, it shows that the APPEARANCE of accuracy is far more important than accuracy itself. Perhaps the Swedes were more important than the Vikings, but people THINK that the vikings were more important. Perhaps horned helmets were inaccurate, but people THINK that they were accurate. No matter how many references you cite, and how much research you do, we still think that vikings should have horned helmets, and unhorned vikings just look wrong.
In another thread (or an earlier version of this one, I can't remember) I suggested that proper spellings be used. Mao Zedong instead of Mao Tsetung, Chinngis instead of Ghengis. Again, these are more accurate, but since they don't match popular opinion, people will never accept them.
Everyone has read about Ghengis Kahn and Mao Tsetung, therefore they are correct. Similarly, everyone has seen horned vikings in movies, therefore vikings wore horns.
A result of pop culture? Yeah, but it can't be discounted either... Appearance of realism is more important than realism itself.
<font size=1 color=444444>[This message has been edited by NotLikeTea (edited June 28, 1999).]</font>
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Andy B
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Gothenburg,Sweden
May 1999
time: 05:14
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Yes Eggman you are very right.
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NotLikeTea
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HRM, NS, Canada
Apr 1999
time: 05:14
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Speaking of names...
Who "discovered" North America in 1492?
Our textbooks say Christopher Columbus. French texts say Christophe Colombe. Of course, his parents probably called him Christopho Colombo..
See? It's probably besat to stick with one naming system
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Eggman
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There should be a Ghana/Mali/Songhai civilization. There size and wealth is probably the most impressive in sub-Sahara Africa. However, they do cover pretty much all the same territory so you would have to include only one of them (like the Babylonians and Assyrians combined into the Babylonians). Personally, I would suggest the Mali.
One thing I would like to see is for civilizations to become really differentiated. Have the civs have personality and uniqueness. In Civ2, the only difference between the various civs is if they attack you now or later (except for the perfectionist civs, which failed to grow and thus were doomed). It would be nice to have science dominated civs and really warlike civs and very diplomatic but cunning civs that ACT differently. I don't just want Alexander picture and name up there, I want to fight Alexander (or a decent fascimile). Also, I should have the option to randomize these personalities. Maybe even have multiple leaders with all different personalities to get a real feel (Who wants a peaceloving Alexander? Give me a Plato!)
Also, if there could be a way that civilizations could become unique in their technology, at least for a while, that would be nice. Somone suggested minor techs which would provide you with some special units or abilities if you were so lucky to get one. Thus, different civs could have somewhat different strategies working with these strengths. Now, I don't care about linking these advances permanently with the civ (only the Japanese can build Samauri, the English Longbowmen, etc.) - just that civs can become unique, at least for a little while.
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EnochF
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Seattle, WA
Jan 1970
time: 21:14
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Theben mentioning multiple leaders has got me thinking about dynasties again.
It sounds tempting to give each tribe five leaders with a rudimentary personality of his or her own, but in the end this is going to end up being a lot of busywork for programmers. I mean, I can come up with five major leaders for America, England, France, Germany, Egypt, China, Rome, Greece, the Hebrews, probably Spain, probably the Arabs, maybe Japan... but that's about it. And some nations in the game will have only dictators as leaders. Who would be the ideal choice as "peaceful leader of Babylon"?
Back when I first suggested dynasties, I just figured there would be variations on a single name unless the player chose a new one. Maybe the leader would occasionally change from male to female, so Comrade Hatshepsut would take over from Consul Rameses, but I never considered that the democratic leader of Egypt would be Anwar Sadat.
So now I'm wondering whether I really thought about this enough... maybe dynasties would needlessly complicate things.
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Andy B
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Gothenburg,Sweden
May 1999
time: 05:14
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A comment to the dynasty leaders discusion Why do they have to have real names. Cant they have the first the second... exampel(USA) Bill Clinton I, Bill Clinton II, Bill Clinton III, Bill Clinton IX... And when a new dynesty comes the can be called George Washington I... That way you donŽt have to come up with so many names. You relly donŽt have to pick the big leaders names.
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Ecce Homo
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Stockholm, Sweden
Apr 1999
time: 06:14
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I believe we should keep on with the "viking fuss" in the General forum.
One of my points was, as I have mentioned several times before, that there should not be a problem to include 100+ civs, as long as there are enough city and leader names.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Ecce Homo (edited July 02, 1999).]</font>
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Cartagia the Great
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Wisconsin(the greatest dere hey!)
Jan 1970
time: 05:14
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I have to agree, although I must say I do agree with the idea of giving a Civilization two or morel eaders of each gender, each with a slightly differant personality, it should shake things up a little bit.
Oh, for the person who ws giving a few of these names, the middle leader of Persia would have to be Shapur, the second leader of Sassanidian Persia and one of its strongest leader.
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I like the idea of giving civs leader units but don't let it be based on ancient-medieval-modern basis.
Instead have a group (say 5) of choices of leaders that each civ can make. Each has different characteristics and personalities. By characteristics I mean:
- unit offense , defense and movement
- hit points and firepower
- effectiveness of administration (reduced corruption in cities around the leader)
- effectiveness of leadership - attack and/or defense bonus given to units within 2 squares of it
- tactics - increased or decreased viewing range
As the unit gets "older" , it would permanently lose hit points until it reached zero or was killed. When it declines to a few hit points, the civ would be given the option to build another to replace it and that unit would come into existance when the previous leader "dies".
However, if a leader is killed, there would be some turbulance and a civ would have to build a new leader from scratch and have no benefits as a civ would have no leader in the period between when the previous leader was killed and the new leader was built.
Sorry if I am repeating someone's else's ideas, I didn't read the entire thread yet.
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Continued idea...
Perhaps certain leaders wouldn't be available until a certain date or a certain technology is reached.
Certain techs would give all of the leaders additional bonuses to continue to make them useful as technologies advanced. For example, discovering leadership would give all leaders a +1 to their offense and defensive amounts (from eg. 4/2/1 to 5/3/1)
Maybe for some variety a civ would not be able to replace a recently deceased leader with the same unit it would have to be another leader unit.
Other possible bonuses:
+10% gold, +10% beakers, increased/decreased effectiveness of happiness, etc.
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Americans: George Washington (Adams, Jefferson, Nathaniel Greene, Madison)-Abe Lincoln (Grant, Johnson, Hayes)-Dwight Eisenhower (FDR, JFK, Ronald Reagan, Bob Dole, Bill Clinton, Dick Nixon)
Babylonians: Sargon I-Hammurabi-Nebuchadnezzar II (Nabonidus)
British: William I-Elizabeth I-Tony Blair (Winston Churchill, Bernard Montgomery)
Chinese: Shi Huangdi-Tang Tai Zung-Deng Xiaoping (Mao Zedong, Jiang Zemin)
Egyptians: Ramesses II-Saladin-Anwar Sadat
French: Charlemagne-Louis XIV-Charles de Gaulle (Mitterand, Chirac)
Germans: Attila-Frederick-Helmut Kohl(Wilhelm II, Hitler, Doenitz)
Greeks: Pericles (Alexander, Leonidas, Socrates, Perseus...)-Baseilos II-Constantus something
Japanese: Yamato-Tokugawa-Akihito
Persians: Cyrus II-Shapur I-Ayatollah Khomeini
Romans (Italians): Romulus (Scipio, Caesar, Octavian, Hadrian, Constantine), - , Benito Mussolini
Russians: Ivan IV-Peter the Great-Josef Stalin
------------------
quote:
"Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries!" -- John Cleese, "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" |
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The Brain
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Of The Huggy Fish-People!
Jul 1999
time: 05:14
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I think there should be ALIEN civs that would only appear sometimes when you achieve let's say the Atomic Bomb. Because then they would know that the human race has gotten high enough in technology that they should worry. If they come then they might do one of two things- Attack the whole human race in a "war of the worlds", or they will "come in peace" and grant you acces to a future technology not researchable by anyone else (but they can steal it or you can trade it). Maybe with this you can build a super unit or whatever. So, have an ALIEN CIVILIZATION!
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Acctually I'm a genetically altered lab mouse plotting to take over the world!
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Eggman
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Brain: That idea is so utterly ridiculous that I think I like it.
Are you pondering what I'm pondering?
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28-06-1999 03:49
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