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meowser
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sandiego, ca, us
Apr 1999
time: 05:14
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Yeah, I want an editor where you don't have to start a game to use it (i.e. SMAC). Something along the lines of CIV II works for me.
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Ralph
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Stockholm - Sweden
Jan 1970
time: 05:14
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In addition to the single tile, 2x2, 4x4, 8x8, cross and city-area brush-stamps, also add:
Replace [terrain-tile] with [terrain-tile] throughout the entire map.
With above tool the map-designer can replace certain terrain-types globally with a click of a button, without having to search trough the entire map and manually replacing certain tiles one by one.
Apart from this just make the CIV-3 scenario-editor just as flexible and optional as the SMAC equivalent, and everything is a OK.
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JT
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A place, in a place, within a place
Jan 1970
time: 05:14
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Yeah, kinda combine SMAC and CIV2 and you've got the perfect map editor.
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evil conquerer
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Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
May 1999
time: 05:14
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To expand on Trachmyr's suggestions:
How about, instead of editing the text files, all customizations should be made through a scenario/map editor. For example, a module similar to ACEdit for editing factions, a tech-tree creator (<gulp> that would be hard), and a rules modifier. Instead of having to copy and replace and back up and other messy stuff to load custom files, there should be a system similar to the following:
If changes are made to the text files from within the scenario editor, it will require that the scenario be placed in a separate folder. Of course, there would have to be an option to create a new directory from within the editor itself. All the game files would be saved in that directory. This way, when the game loads the scenario, it will load all the custom rules and graphics with it. In addition, a scenario file will no longer be required to make a rules set. Instead, one can select an option "use custom rules from this folder..." to load a custom rules set. This would completely eliminate the hassle of using text files, and instead bundle everything with the scenario/map editor.
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LordGrey
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Northeast USA
Jan 1970
time: 05:14
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I mentioned this before, but I really like the idea and will repeat myself: Civ2 Scenarios should be compatible with Civ3 so that we do not lose all of the great work that so many Civ2 fans and scenario builders have done so far.
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NotLikeTea
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HRM, NS, Canada
Apr 1999
time: 05:14
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I seem to remember hearing that one of the CivII expansion thingies had a scenario editor with actions triggered by other actions. The Romans will only attack when you capture CityA, for example...
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ml_4da3
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Uppsala, Sweden
May 1999
time: 05:14
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Bigger maps!! Maybe 20000-40000 squares!
and more tech, more wonders (but not too powerful wonders, like CIV:CTP, it should be live civ 2 wonders).
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SnowFire
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New York City, NY
Jan 1970
time: 00:14
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Wow... talk about lack of attention.
"Yeah, kinda combine SMAC and CIV2 and you've got the perfect map editor."
No!
The one biggest thing that dragged SMAC and CivII down was their bad map editor and horrible scenario editor.
At least in CivII you had a separate map editor that allowed you to quickly whip up a map. SMAC had no such amenities. You had to use the cheat menu, and do it while in a game. The messiness of that cannot be overstated. Playing with altitude coherently was nigh-on-impossible. Fooling around with technologies took forever. Same with cities, especially making new cities- switch to Civ that gets new city. Give civ colony pod. Build city. Then cheat it some resources, have a turn go by (in which the computer does god knows what with the other factions taht you wanted to hold still), and repeat for other improvements. Are we having fun yet? Making a scenario, not a map, was basically impossible. And a map was not much fun either.
SMAC's "editor" was a giant step BACKWARDS from CivII's. With CivII I had enough time to create one scenario, IIRC, and that was derivative of the WWII scenario relieving me of the necessity to actually make the map work. SMAC I just gave up after a half an hour of wrangling with the altitude controls.
What I have to give to both SMAC and CivII was their tremendous customizability of rules in both. Keep the rules in .txt files, and add even more things we can edit. That is where I have to take my hat off to both SMAC and CivII. They may not be the best scenario makers, but they sure were able to really customize the standard game to any kind you wanted.
Now, for some constructive criticism. If you want to have a good place to start, go to the HOMM III map editor. It has flaws, but only because it has gone so far beyond what most map editors can do you start to see what CAN be done. For those of you that don't have it, you can place anything you want in the editor on a map right away. Fortifications, mountains, forests, cities- you should only have to drag one over from a sidebar and plop it down. Actually, in CivIII, you'd just paint the mountains and forests on, I suppose (like you can with other basic terrain types in HOMM III, like grass, snow, dirt...). You can drag and drop all the irrigations and roads and mines you want, as well, or click "auto-improve" and watch as the civ builds itself up some (every city improves x-2 squares around it, with x equaling the city's population). You should be able to drag events that trigger when a player walks across a patch of ground signaling a message, a gift of gold, a theft of gold, or a battle encounter with some enemies (in Civ's case, these "ground events" would need to be strips of territory, not just one space as in HOMM III). You should be able to click on the city and modify everything that's in it, all it's stats, and set limits on it. If you want a border fort town, that has city walls & barracks already built but has a max population of 3 and cannot build any structures other than the most basic, then you should be able to do that, and outlaw the other buildings and pre-build the buildings. Not to mention plopping down the citizens, armies, etc. You should then be able to go up to a pull down menu on the top and set characteristics for the entire Civ, like in CivII- technology it has, technology forbidden to that Civ, Social engineering, AI personality, etc. You should be able to set timed events for each civ from this scenario editor, with no need of an events.txt file like in CivII. Those timed events should be like the ground events- they tell scenario information and plot twists, they give money, they take money, they give troops to cities, etc. And needless to say, all you should have to do is select a player from a pull-down menu, take a unit, and drag it onto a patch of ground. Plus, you should be able to give the unit orders as well (if it's played by the AI)- hold your ground, patrol 5 squares from here and attack any that get nearby, goto CityX, etc.- and these orders would be followed by the AI, not changed. The possibilities grow exponentially when items like these are added.
For instance, the Peaceful kingdom of SnowFire is a well developed civ- but that didn't take long, since I merely placed the cities, quickly checked off a list of improvements built in them, and gave them population, after which I selected "auto-develop SnowFire." However, I put the barbarians of Activision nearby. Their cities are not nearly so built up, but they have been amassing of horde of troops to pour into SnowFire's realm. They all have orders to take certain cities in SF's border, after which the AI, which is set to aggressive and really hates SnowFire, will surely continue to use the units to attack. The barbarians also have several technologies forbidden to them, so they can't take my technologies in the attack. They are also set to anti-technological so they will not waste production building libraries. I, as SnowFire, get the news of this attack in events given to me. I try and quickly build up units to knock back the horde. After stopping them with only a few cities lost, I push them back to their own territory. As my army crosses the isthmus, I get a message saying that barbarians army remnants jump out in ambush and attack. Of course, that event could only be triggered by me, and it's canceled after one use. My remaining army staggers back home to rest and rejuvenate, when I get a message saying that the barbarians are not my true enemy, they were really funded by Evil Lord Death across the seas.... blah blah blah. You get the point.
Which reminds me- as in CivII, the scenarios should be able to make use of different rules.txt files than the normal game.
I haven't played SMAC in awhile because of the lack of scenarios, while I keep on making new HOMM III maps and play HOMM III a lot more. Coincidence? This must absolutely be fixed in CivIII. To recap:
Scenario editor SEPARATE from game. No cheat menu!
Easier to whip up maps.
More stuff to do with them, made easier.
And if you haven't alraedy, get your hands on the HOMM III map editor for what a map editor SHOULD do.
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SnowFire
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New York City, NY
Jan 1970
time: 00:14
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I might add, to clarify... after the single player game is mastered, there tend to be only 2 paths that keep the game interesting afterwards. One is multiplayer. You will never, ever "master" the game then, since you'll be playing against humans just as wily as you. Good example: Myth, StarCraft. The other is Scenarios. In a predominantly single player game, this is where you can stack everything against you, and throw in a story to boot. Scenarios is what kept HOMM II going for so long on my computer despite never playing a multiplayer game, and kept CivII alive a lot longer with the add-on pack. Combine them, and you get really long lasting games- Myth: TFL games, after the scenario editor was introduced, flourished for long after the game was released.
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Ecce Homo
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Stockholm, Sweden
Apr 1999
time: 06:14
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The Random Map algorithms must be improved.
In Civ 2, the random maps were not Earth-like at all. There were huge blobs of Grasslands with some Forests and Hills in the middle continents - Tundras, Glaciers and Deserts were almost absent. There were also too little oceans.
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Kris Huysmans
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Belgium
May 1999
time: 05:14
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I found the FW editor the best editor I have ever see. So the rule for a good scenario editor is easy <strong> Clone the FW editor </strong>. The only thing that must be inproved is the posibility to change the effect of buildings and wonders. And the possibility to choose about differend AI strategies.
<font size=1 color=444444>[This message has been edited by Kris Huysmans (edited June 06, 1999).]</font>
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Cartagia the Great
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Wisconsin(the greatest dere hey!)
Jan 1970
time: 05:14
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I, personally, would like a map editor that works mroe or less like that of Civ2. However, on this line, I would like it to be possible, in one way or another, to trasnfer Civ2 map files to the new system. I have a great Civ2 map, and i'm sure many othres do as well, and I'd love to be able to transfer it over to play on the new game.
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mindlace
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Lisbon, Portugal
May 1999
time: 05:14
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I was thinking about placing it in other, but I think it fits best here:
IMPROVED RANDOM MAP GENERATOR:
Ok, the fractal thing is nice, but I have yet to play on a random map of AC that looks anything like a planet. In fact, I pretty much stick to Huge AC for that very reason.
SO: Take an ocean. Draw various polygons on it, clustering them together in X groups. Then intersect the polygons, and run the fractal algorithm where inner area of polygons more or less = land.
I mean: Africa and S. America are more or less triangles, Australia is a circle, europe is a bunch of polygons... but the fractal algorithm gives you interesting coastlines and internal (mountains, etc) features... which is what we want, no?
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NotLikeTea
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HRM, NS, Canada
Apr 1999
time: 05:14
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This fits in better with Map Generation than a map editor, but...
When we are choosing the land mass size, rainfall, etc.. what about an option to choose Isolationist (on island alone), confrontational (on continent with others) r random?
I play my bst games alone, and it would be nice to be able to control this.. most folks would probably choose random.
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Kris Huysmans
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Belgium
May 1999
time: 05:14
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This looks me a good idea notliketea. Maybe you should also choice near sea or inland start lokation.
<font size=1 color=444444>[This message has been edited by Kris Huysmans (edited June 15, 1999).]</font>
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Dr Strangelove
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I'd like to bring back the special industrial resource (coal, iron, oil) to be used in the way they were in Civ II, to boost the owning cities production especially when mined, and to be used as in CTP as a tradable resource.
What this has to do with the editor is that I'd like to be able to place resources with the editor in order to creat an earth more closely resembling our own. CTP's idea of having tobacco, gems, friut, various game as tradable commodities waas also a good idea. I'd love to make a map where there is tobacco in Virginia, coal in England the iron in the Lorraine, oil in Texas, Elephants in Kenya, and etc.
Non resource bearing hills and mountains should have less production bonus than they have in CTP. Take a look at the Alps and the Himalayas. Hills should have a higher food value if irrigated. Look what they do with hills in China.
Was I too late to make the list to be sent to the Civ III team?
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Tornado7
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Central Islip New York America
Jun 1999
time: 05:14
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CLONE THE FW SCENARIO EDITOR!
CLONE THE FW SCENARIO EDITOR!
It's good, it works, and you could tweak it to add the customization of city improvments.
CLONE THE FW SCENARIO EDITOR!
------------------
Truth is stranger than fiction, and people are weirder than both.
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20-05-1999 23:08
n ... Ted S.
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