05-12-2000 02:10									#1
	kengel, Crustacian, DaveV, Carolus Rex Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

A 1x1x game on an "equal start" map. We played one online session, progressing to 875 BC in about 3 hours. I'd love to continue this game, but I think (after an ICQ chat with kengel) that we'll have a hard time finding a common time to play. I suggest we continue via Email, otherwise the game will end up on the scrap heap. We stopped during my turn, so if everyone agrees, I will play my turn and send the file to Carolus.

	05-12-2000 23:12									#2
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playing by email would be fine with me, and if there gets to be a time we share in common to resume online turns then we should be able to switch back.

One question regarding PBEM games: can a player take an opponants city if defended, or empty? Or must all war situations be avoided in PBEM?

	05-12-2000 23:27									#3
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Yes, it's a great idea to keep open the possibility of another online session. I wish I had said that!

I don't think there's any problem with attacking someone in PBEM. If the AI tries to contact you, just ignore it and refuse any offers. I don't know about anyone else, but I started this game with the assumption that it wouldn't be won by a spaceship...

	05-12-2000 23:38									#4
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What? My folk are on a planet with a violently predisposed ruler running rampant?

	06-12-2000 15:30									#5
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Attacking is only a problem when you are in republic or democracy, since you have to negotiate peace even if you refuse diplomatic contacts with AI. Even worse, if someone attacks you while you in democracy , your government will negotiate peace as soon as you spot one hostile foe, making your opponent looking like and

I guess I will stay in monarchy in this game?

------------------
greets from the Warrior of sky

	06-12-2000 17:39									#6
	Put an end to popups!

kengel - If the attacker is not in rep/dem, he still has the option of refusing any cease fire or peace offers. But another AI trick could be catastrophic to rep/dem governments: the "revolt on human player's turn" stunt. You move a unit next to the AI, and he revolts so he can declare war.

	07-12-2000 00:10									#7
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What about we ask each other to declar war, so that all are in a state of war to begin with?

	07-12-2000 23:24									#8
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I'm no scenario expert, but could we use delevent.exe to read in an events.txt file disabling negotiations?
That would take away much of the AI's ability to mess things up.

	08-12-2000 01:57									#9
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I would be willing to try it if you want to do the handywork.

	08-12-2000 13:38									#10
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"The leader of the pack is more than interested in continuing via PBEM. However, he has little experience in conducting such business and would need some help to get acquainted with it. The leader of the war loving civilization spoken of above has made some attempts to explain this mystery to our noble leader. These heroic attempts were not in vain, but a brief summary would be as appreciated as a lighthouse is to a trireme fighting its way across vast oceans."

"Let it hence be known that the god E-mail is worshipped by our civilization and that contact with Her is most likely to be established in the temple of Profile."

"I have spoken. The rest is silence..."

Carolus

	08-12-2000 18:10									#11
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The Egyptians recognize no god but the greatest of all gods, the all-powerful ICS. We have made an offering to the false god of the Sioux, in anticipation of proving the superiority of our god to all others.

Let it be known to the world that a permanent state of war now exists between all civilizations. No diplomatic contact will be possible, although embassies can still be established.

	08-12-2000 19:46									#12
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Excellent instructions sent with the save!

Will have a go right now, hopefully I will figure it out.

Dumb questions:

Is it the same procedure every time?

There is no risk that Sioux AI will pay you tribute?

When I get the save, open it and find a city or two conquered (or units have "disappeared" ) then that's it? No explanations from the conqueror, i.e. which direction he came from, which units he took the cities or killed my units with etc? All the things you can observe in a regular game, gone?

BTW, "We choose to go to AC... We choose to go to AC not because it is easy, but because it is difficult!"

Carolus

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Carolus Rex (edited December 08, 2000).]</font>

	08-12-2000 20:14									#13
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<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>Originally posted by Carolus Rex on 12-08-2000 09:46 AM

Is it the same procedure every time?
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>Yes, except future files will be .net saves instead of a .scn. I had to send you the .scn because I couldn't figure any other way to prevent my civ from getting two turns of production.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>There is no risk that Sioux AI will pay you tribute?
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>None whatsoever. I can't even try to talk to the Sioux until I establish an embassy; then they'll reply "Do you take us for fools?" to any attempt at contact.

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font>When I get the save, open it and find a city or two conquered (or units have "disappeared" ) then that's it? No explanations from the conqueror, i.e. which direction he came from, which units he took the cities or killed my units with etc? All the things you can observe in a regular game, gone?

<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>Pretty much, yes. You can use the casualty timeline to find out which of your units were killed and who did the deed. And units which didn't move after attacking should still be on your map. But if someone used, say, a transport to drop off some diplos near one of your cities, then moved it back out of the city radius, you wouldn't be able to tell where the diplos came from. I think the Aussies tried to create some house rules regarding informing other players about attacks in their PBEM game.
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited December 08, 2000).]</font>

	08-12-2000 20:35									#14
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Ok, thanks.

Just opened the file, everything went ok. But when my turn started I got a "traveller's report" about the Egyptians starting building the Pyramids. I immediately quit, didn't play my turn.

How did that happen, wasn't "ctrl + n" supposed to stop this? Anyway, this means you'll lose some shields. If the AI switched from something then yes for sure, if it started from scratch then maybe when you switch back to something else (unless it's only one shield).

Equal for all I suppose, so no biggie?

Carolus

	09-12-2000 00:42									#15
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Please include your instructions in the save to me.

I should have illiminated those unwanted wonders in the scenario and will shortly do so in it for any future games.

I just asked Curumbor about doing so from Dave's save before this all gets going with the PBEM:

Crustacian: (11:32 AM) so change the name of the save to scn, remove those pesky wonders all but apollos and manhattans, then re-ship the saves to everyone?
curumbor elendil: (11:33 AM) yep
Crustacian: (11:33 AM) hmmmm..... what if the one whose turn it currently is, removed them this way wouldn't it pass to the others ok?
curumbor elendil: (11:34 AM) yeah - just make sure to keep the scenario beginning on that person's turn still.

We agreeed to Apollos only as I noted, so DaveV, could you remove the rest of the wonders in the scenario mode so the problem Rex described will not re-occur? Then resend your PBEM turn to Rex?


"Even if you do learn to speak correct English, whom are you going to speak it to?"~Clarence Darrow

	09-12-2000 00:46									#16
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Also there is a "total war flag that can be togled too.
maybe this is an in scenario way to accomplish the same thing

	09-12-2000 14:30									#17
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Dave told me yesterday that it would probably be a one time event (the wonder thing above) and that the game should be fine now.

Maybe we can play it cool?

Carolus

	09-12-2000 21:23									#18
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The more I think about the situation, the more I suspect the double-production bug happened, but with the AI in charge the second time. This is kind of a sticky problem - I'm getting an extra turn's worth of science, food, and shields. I think I can adjust some of these things in the cheat/scenario menus, but I'm not sure I can compensate fully. Maybe there's a flaw in my methods - here's what I'm doing:

1. Load the .net save file from the online game. I saved at the beginning of my turn.
2. Set the scenario flag, use Edit King to put all civs at war with one another. Make the moves for my turn, set end of turn with ctr-n.
3. Save the file as a scenario.
4. If I load the scenario, all my cities seem to go through the start-of-turn logic. I know for sure that I built a settler in a city that didn't have a settler at the end of step 2. So I just sent the scenario file to Carolus Rex. But now I suspect the same bug occurred, but the AI had a chance to rearrange production in my cities (shudder).

Any suggestions, scenario gurus?

	11-12-2000 02:01									#19
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How about posting in the scenario forum, maybe the guys over there can help?

Carolus

	12-12-2000 17:46									#20
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kengel sent me a copy of the save file, and it's a mess. The AI has had its way with my civ, and exactly one city is building what I want. I could recover from all this, but I realized that I didn't send Carolus the events.txt file that disabled negotiations. Since that was the point of this whole exercise, I did what I should have done from the outset: micromanaged my cities so they'd produce one turn's worth of shields, food, and arrows in the two turns the game seems determined to give me. This time I sent a .net file, which should avoid any AI takeover.

I've sent the save file to Carolus Rex; he and kengel will have to replay the 875BC turn (850BC for kengel). Sorry for the mixup.

	13-12-2000 06:17									#21
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No problem DaveV,
It is well worth the effort to get it figured, and then once it is smoothed out we won't even remember the trouble
WHERE IS MY TURN? ....just kidding

	16-12-2000 20:44									#22
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Sorry guys for being so slow, lots of unexpected things to do.

Will get it going this weekend I hope!

Carolus

	18-12-2000 21:49									#23
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Kengel, you've got mail!

Carolus

	19-12-2000 05:15									#24
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back to DaveV...

	19-12-2000 21:30									#25
	Increase Your PM Length

More mail, oh great warrior of the sky!

BTW, when I quit last time my research was 4 turns per discovery and I was one turn away from completion. This turn I didn't make the break-through though, and my discovery rate was now 5 turns. How can that be? I don't remember picking off a worker and even if I did I also founded a new city with a whale, which should more than compensate a worker less.

Anyway, have sent it to Kengel.

Carolus

	19-12-2000 21:33									#26
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Another question, do I have to set my password every time or is the one I set the first session "remembered" by the game?

Carolus

	19-12-2000 23:35									#27
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Strange things are happening with the game file, here too
Some of my workers were rearranged between the end of my last and the actual turn
I encountered this phenomen also in other PBEM games except for that for which I am hosting. I have no idea why this happened (sometimes it happens, sometimes not); It is not tragically actually, but can be a real pain when you are in democracy and have unhappy cities...

Carolus: Please check your workers, I guess the same happened to your civ. It must be somehow got under AI control during another players turn.

Anyway, turn on to Crusty

------------------
greets from the Warrior of sky

	19-12-2000 23:40									#28
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Guess what?
Just mutated from a migthy, respected warlord to a little, whining prince
hehe... too much posted here...

Carolus, you need to type in your password only once.

	19-12-2000 23:52									#29
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

You need to set your password just one time, but you'll have to type it in every turn. As the little popup window in the game reminds you, if you forget your password there is no recovery. So I suggest writing it down somewhere (like on your monitor bezel ).

	21-12-2000 01:14									#30
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My city workers insist on working unauthorized squares too. Not a big problem tho.