01-10-1999 17:53									#1
	Most Stupid stratergy encountered in MP Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I was playing a game with 4 strangers the other day, and this one guy wouldn't talk to anyone and sent an army (of horses and warriors) to attack everybody else. His science was woeful, his cities lacking infrastructure, with no roads or irrigation and no city improvements.
After nearly destroying one Civ early on, the rest of us ganged up on his unsociable game attitude and wiped him out before 1 AD. The pateince we applied in getting better troops by concentrating on science wiped the floor with him. All I can say is this the stupidest strategy anybodies ever come across?

	01-10-1999 18:04									#2
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Sounds like someone who's never played the game before. Probably figured he could hit you all early, fast, and (sort of) hard, set you back so that he could get a big lead.

He won't do it again, will he?

	01-10-1999 18:13									#3
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Some times your starting position dictates an early strike approach. If you have no trade, terrible land for your starting cities, a few free units and a military science from huts ... what the heck. You might as well go for it. If you are going to be so far behind in the science race, you might as well have fun.
But... Horses and WARRIORS! And not talking to people! HA HA HA HA HA HA. Warriors, used as warriors... Even funnier. He should have at least been talking to people, even if he was just go to lie to them.

Well, I guess you have to start somewhere to learn how to play MP.

	01-10-1999 19:23									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I bet it was fun. I wish more people would fight. Toadkiller was good for that. I mean, we all know what science to research, what improvments to build and everything else. I've been in some boring games where everyone just races through the science ladder. Thats fun, weeeeeeeeeee!

	01-10-1999 20:07									#5
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We know we can always count on your to liven up any MP game MWHC...

And why don't you play anymore? We miss your true dedication to the art of war (usually at the expense of your civilization )

	01-10-1999 20:52									#6
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Here's something stupid I'm up to in a current duel with kengel.

We start out and I'm doing fine. When we met on the map I offered a peace treaty, don't ask me why, and kengel accepted. Because it's a duel (or that's what it's supposed to be ) I then built lots of units, mostly crusaders.

I send them over to kengel's empire, embark and have a settler building a fortress on a hill (only one square from Der Udal, size 12 city). When finished I stack the 10 or 12 crusaders with a couple of phalanxes and a diplo in the fortress. The city has no walls and is now within reach.

Then I wait and I wait and I wait and I wait. Why? Because we have a peace treaty!

MWHC: "So what? Sneak attack!"
CR: "I can't!"
MWHC: "Why not?"
CR: "I just can't, I'll feel bad about it."

MWHC: "Then cancel the peace treaty!"
CR: "Why, he hasn't given me any reason to?"
MWHC: "REASON, YOU NEED A REASON TO CANCEL THE PEACE TREATY? WIMP!"
CR (looking down in the ground): "..."

MWHC: "Why did you offer a peace treaty in the first place if you know you can't break it later?"
CR: "It seemed to be the right thing to do."
MWHC: "THE RIGHT THING TO DO??? IT'S A DUEL FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!"
CR: "Well, I'm thinking about going for Alpha Centauri now..."

So now I'm sitting back waiting for him to sneak attack me while considering going for AC. Kind of boring to ship the crusaders back and disband them, but...

Carolus

	02-10-1999 09:19									#7
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ROTFL
You did a good job... I'm sure MWHC would say all those things.

But now, I must nominate you for stupidest strategy in a duel MP game.

A FRIKEN PEACE TREATY!!!!!!!!
WHAT WERE YOU THINKING??????
And please don't tell me that you traded maps with him too

WIMP. BREAK THE DAMN TREATY... KICK HIS BUTT. KILL HIM... IT'S A DUEL!


I feel better now

	02-10-1999 09:34									#8
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HAHAHAHA!!!

Thinking??? I just wanted to be nice to the man!

I wanted to trade maps too (not), but for some reason he declined. I don't get it, why doesn't he want to see where my cities are so he knows he can't settle there?

Any other nominees?

BTW, what is ROTFL short for?

Carolus the Wimp

	01-10-1999 22:38									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

ROTFL = rolling on the floor laughing or run over those french lads.

CRoi - Now I am sure that the purported Viking attacks at Lindesfarne were really just a big fat Irish lie!!! Charles XII, he was a travelling minstrel. Gustavus Adolphus? Why he was a simple farmer and the botanical inspiration for Linius. The Vasa? That was just a scientific experiment in keel hauling!

of course ~Birdtide~ would have attacked with the Phalanxs since Crusadiere sounds like a French word!

If kengel knows you are there, fortified units in a city radius is an act of war so you are already violating the peace treaty!

BULLY!

I regularly do stupid things in a civ game, strategywise some of the dumb things I've done are - adding caravans to a wonder that is already completed; wandering around looking for a capital city site without adjacent mountains for twenty turns in a duel; agreeing to trade techs when I didn't have my side of the bargain; forgetting to switch to the correct wonder before completion...etc, etc, etc.
[This message has been edited by Sten Sture (edited October 01, 1999).]

	01-10-1999 22:47									#10
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Carolus, haha.
I guess for an experienced player that is kinda of a stupid way to play a duel.
Some times you just have to stop being nice and snatch the other guys teddy bear to gain his respect. Otherwise, you'll be the guy handing his dinner money to the short little thug who's mother didn't love him and only respects a sharp hard slap.
You've made me chuckle anyway, and it's almost the exact opposite of the original posting.
Keep up the good work in your one man crusade against violence.
GIVE PEACE A CHANCE, join the Carolus society of victims
[This message has been edited by Superstar (edited October 01, 1999).]

	02-10-1999 02:52									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I recently had 2 of my coastal cities attacked by a fleet of empty triremes.What a slaughter

	02-10-1999 02:53									#12
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Great posts! Where to begin?

Sten,

You're right, I didn't think of units in a fortress within the city radius as an act of war. Swear to God they were only trying to, eh..., recruit new members to my society (see above)

Your knowledge in swedish history truly is amazing. I really mean it, even though the post above is just a little bit, hm, misleading.

Is ROTFL really short for "rolling on the floor laughing" (or are you just taking advantage of my limited knowledge in chat abbreviations? )?

Superstar,

Great idea!

C'mon everybody! EVC don't be shy, Joe stop sitting all alone in the corner thinking about the jews controlling the media! Join hands, all together now:

"All we are saying, is give peace a chance..."



Carolus

	02-10-1999 04:44									#13
	Suffering from ads?

ROTFLMAO

Peace... IT'S A STRATEGY GAME!

KIll the bugger!

	02-10-1999 08:53									#14
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Well I agree fighting may not be the best way to go but most games are never continued anyway so you might as well have some fun. Every now and than you get lucky and take a city (great fun!).

I'll attack when I think I can cause damage to the enemy civ. If you dont like a good war you might as well just play the AI.

Still working nights, thats why I have not been around to play... maybe next month.

	02-10-1999 16:13									#15
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How many times have we played now Ming? I know how you play like a book. I know just the science you go for, what wonders your building and all the things you do. Your a good player but kinda like an AI in terms of what you will do next. Of course when it works for you it works very well.

Now, on the battlefield, thats where things are fun. How many big battles have you been in Ming? By big I mean 15+ units working together not in a city. My first MP attack was against Rah with 3 or 4 ships and 12+ units (carvels and knights I think, it was awhile ago). Our landmasses where some 10 sqaures away. Now, I didnt take any cities but that was a fun 5 or 6 turns. I made a couple of bad mistakes.

What I have found is direct attack on the city is a waste for the most part. Most human players will build a city around 3 or 4 specials which, after time, the city really depends on. It's better to move in with a good defense unit, a good attack unit and a pre-worked settler. Pick a good resource sqaure, *poof* fort and take control of it. This requires a smaller army and forces the other guy to approach you and attack. And we all know the defender in CIV always has the advantage. It's better to starve a city a little first before you attack.

	02-10-1999 17:05									#16
	Got spare money?

Now I'm really confused!

ROTFLMAO = Run Over Those French Lads, Measly Attack Organizer?

Oh well...

Carolus

	03-10-1999 09:05									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I was playing a game a few months back that was thoroughly amusing because of the antics of a human player who joined rather late in the game. The guy joined around 1400 AD and within 2 turns declared war on me by attacking and sinking one of my transports carrying caravans, and promptly started chatting how he was going to crush my civ like butter. Obviously he was a warrior - type civ player.

I saved the game at that point to see after the game had ended what his situation was for him to be so boastful.

His situation: 17 cities, 68 units - researching machine tools - army was mostly cavalry, musketeers, a few riflemen
and cannons with a cruiser and a couple of destroyers, ironclads and transports. Only had a few factories and no city with more than 50 shields production per turn.

My situation: 26 cities, 94 units - researching fusion power (my last tech before the future techs)- # 1 power -I had almost every modern wonder except women's suffrage which my close ally (the #2 power) had and manhattan project (hadn't been built yet). I had over 12 cities with production over 80 shields per turn.

Well, I quickly destroyed most of his fleet and sent stealth bombers to wipe out his coastal forces. My ally, who was itching to get into the war (he also found this guy's attitude considering his dire situation laughable), got his chance when his cruiser was attacked by one of this guy's cruisers.

After that it was game over. We both sent large forces against him (I had over 150 units by that time having switched to fundamentalism). After we had conquered 6-7 of his cities, he quit. (After saving it, I found out that he had more partisans left than all of his other units combined)

I have been puzzled ever since why the guy never bothered to find out how his civ stood tech-wise versus the others before attacking.

	02-10-1999 23:57									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

ROTFLMAO = rolling on the floor laughing my ass off

MWHC
I've been in a few large battles including 20 plus units, but it is a rarity.
And yes, given normal circumstances, I generally use a similar strategy, becuase it works. There have been a few games where the situation dictates a different strategy.
But those are far and few between.

	05-10-1999 00:02									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

Hi.
I am very new to this sight, though I've spent way too much time playing Civ and Civ 2 over the years. But I hav ealways played solo. Recently, I bought Test of Time and Fantastic Worlds, both of which allow multiplayers. Ok great, but I don't know anyone to multiplayer with. Is there an email list for such purposes? Or do people play on a game sight? Please help, I have a yen to get crushed by all you experts. :-)

	05-10-1999 01:17									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

There is a thread on the next board up Civ2-Multiplay where you can find a list thread called ICQ player numbers or something like that. There are also a couple of threads that may be buried that give pretty detailed instructions on how to get everything set up.

	05-10-1999 17:24									#21
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Vader,
Sounds like you've met the dumbest Civer, congrats. What else could he really do tho? He joined half-way through, he was an ant surrounded by giants, and had absoloutly no chance of winning.
If I was in that situation, I guess I'd go around with my begging bowl or raise taxes, steal a few important defensive techs and then attack the next weakest civ.
He was in a pretty hopeless situation, but he sounded like a pretty hopeless player.

	12-10-1999 10:18									#22
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Carolus, thanks, you made me laugh too.

Let's see you're from Sweden, I'm from Canada and most of the people criticizing your "peacefull warmongering" are from the states. I'm not suprised. It's great to see, both their methods and your's and I don't criticize either as both have a place not only in the civ world but in the real world as well. Personally I think the opinions are generally representative of the nations each of us are from (IMHO).

I was reading a post on favourite/least favourite wonders earlier and was suprised at how many people dislike the eiffel tower. As someone that likes to finish the game with a spotless reputation I generally like to at least conquer the city that has built it with enough time left in the game to restore my rep. (I know it doen't affect score or anything I just like the idea of being a world conqueror whom everyone believes has done no wrong). Thanks again.

	12-10-1999 20:53									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

And thank you Sparrowhawk for bringing one of my favorite new threads back to the top.

The other week I was playing in an MP game.
The first human civ I met, I asked (well demanded) an alliance. Early partnerships in MP can make all the differences in the world.
All he wanted was a peace treaty. Well, early peace treaties mean only a few different things to me in MP...
First, they already have an ally, and he is just coverning his butt.
Second, it's a prelude to war.
Third, the person is so far ahead, that he thinks he can win all by himself (a strange notion in an MP game)

After many demands for an alliance, the answer was no. So, I attacked his warrior with my warrior... as luck has it, my warrior won, and became a vet... (later, he bribed the warrior, but then it died to barbarians)

I assumed he had an ally, and started building boats in case I was pinned in.

Later on, I find out that a few other civs are kicking everybodies butt. And he and I were the only civs NOT in an alliance. (at that point, I could have strangled him for not accepting the original deal)

So fine, we make an alliance.
And then... HE WOULDN'T TRADE MAPS OR ANYTHING. By this point, I was tearing my hair out. All I could get out of him was "I have a plan, trust me" After that comment I reached for the malox

I'm not calling his plan "stupid", but I really expect more than that from an ally


Anybody else have some good ones?


[This message has been edited by Ming (edited October 12, 1999).]

	14-10-1999 18:23									#24
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Yes Ming there is nothing worse then meeting that first civ and when you ask for an alliance and the response is, how about a peace treaty? And you're thinking, damn he's already met somebody, I'm doomed. The only guy left to ally with is stranded on an island and the only hope of meeting them is through MPE.

If there are alliances early in MP and you're not in one, you are at a big disadvantage. Science leap frogs are too important. But most importantly, it gives you someone to chat with to pass the time while you're waiting for your turn. I've had some great discussions this way and helped develop some decent camaraderie. I have fond memories of typing so hard my fingers hurt to MWHC "EXPAND DAMN IT EXPAND" while the return messages would be "ATTACK ATTACK".

I guess I like being part of team when I play games. Which brings up by last point. If you're not going to go all out for an ally, i.e. trade maps, trade sciences, give money to the other when it's needed, discuss strategies and work like a team, PLEASE don't ally with me. I'd rather wait to find someone else. We do do this for fun. I can never ever remember betraying an ally. I've broken peace treaties before, but that's what they are for.

RAH

	14-10-1999 19:39									#25
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

ok.
peace is ok.

	15-10-1999 03:28									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

hmm...
As I always say: you learn a lot with MP.
---
To Ming, with
I was that guy, the one who wanted to make a peace just a peace treaty.
why?
This was my rationale:
Was the first time playing with you. I did'nt knew if you could be trusted (or not). So I only wanted a peace treaty because with that, control zones are in effect. Then I would find out about you, and your gameplay style: if you bribed my warrior, if you try to penetrate my lines with a horse-diplo combo, ...
Only then I could make a good decision.
---
But you decided to attack me.
Your mistake, not mine.
You were stoped were you were,
and no more tech trade for the near future!
---
I was just being cautious.
You were just making true my worst fears about your true intentions.
---
Why did you attacked?
Who made the stupid move?
---
he he he

	15-10-1999 05:26									#27
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

having watched that exchange as an observer, I think I can see both sides. You are correct you were unfamiliar with that sytle. You were unsure if trust was there. But on the other side of the coin, You were given multiple opportunities before he attacked, more than you probably deserved. And granted he was not the strongest person when everyone left for the night, he surpased you greatly. He was more mad at the lost opportunity of teaming with you to beat everyone else. Teams win, period. I would have done the exact same thing he did, maybe portrayed differently, but your response would have led to the same conclusion.
If you had played with him before, you would have known that his word is good.

Both of you lost that night.

I hope that exposure to playing in other games with me will give you the experience that my word is good also. It would be very beneficial if we meet in a game and the teams aren't already decided. But I do expect full commitment among allies. Please post if you don't expect the same thing, because I would rather be dissapointed here than in game.

It has been fun watching you work. And I still believe that raging hordes is the true equalizer.

RAH

	15-10-1999 07:05									#28
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And who was the great power that day? The strongest civ, leader of the great alliance?

MATTHEW, PHYSICS DUDE of the HOUSE of BUBBA !!!

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!

	15-10-1999 08:49									#29
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carnide_ You will notice I didn't name you in my post The post was meant to discuss my feelings on what an alliance is. Total trust and sharing. Or as Rah says, don't bother allying with me if you don't feel the same way.

But since you brought it up...
No it wasn't a mistake. After I took my stance, I had no choice but to attack.
A man is only as good as his word. If I didn't, you would have thought me weak. If you were allied with somebody else, the attack didn't matter. If not, maybe you would waste time building a defense because we were at war. Either way, I win. Now, if you had accepted the alliance, maybe Matt wouldn't be crowing in this thread

	15-10-1999 09:45									#30
	Got spare money?

If you want to play an online game easily go to www.zone.com
the games are not always dependable though.