31-03-2001 05:18									#61
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I think I sent the right adress this time. I found some maps for diplomacy on http://www.diplom.org/Online/maps.html .
These are all more-less historical european provinces, simmilar are found in Europa Universalis (which I recommend)

I think that making a new game based on great aspects of other games is very ok. Nowaday I am thinking of GGS as a game similar to EU in scope of things ... plus provinces which change borders, random terrain ...

Btw, I checked civ3 forum and seems my late estimate that civ3 will have a conservative approach to terrain is true Isometric square tiles it is confirmed.

	03-04-2001 18:15									#62
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I received the map and instructions, and they look exciting... I began reading the pages, but there are about 10 A4 pages with small text, so it may take a while too read all.

Thanks S. Kroeze! I also liked your old-fashioned 'typical' dutch stamps.

	04-04-2001 19:54									#63
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Still here. But I don't have too much time right now. I will be home a little time this weekend, and then in the easter vacation, and then I will post some intelligent comments.

However, it is sad that the activity at this forum is very low. Why is that? For some reason I have become unsubscribed from the mailing list, which I guess is pretty good since I only check my mail once or twice a week, and it will only get flooded if I got all the sourceforge mails. Is most of the activity located there then, or what? Or are you all just very buissy? I hope you have not lost interest in GGS. I know I haven't.

So what's up?

Looking forward to the game of Diplomacy, BTW.

See you!

------------------
"I have an idea for a movie. It's about a killer robot driving instructor, that travels back in time for some reason."
- Homer J. Simpson

GGS Website

	05-04-2001 02:26									#64
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Busy.

	05-04-2001 04:06									#65
	Got spare money?

1. We are all busy (or at least most of us)
2. We are trying to finish the UI now and then first, make the framework
3. There is not THAT much to discuss currently (correct me when I'm wrong)
4. (My main reason) The Apolyton board was down for some days, or at least to me. I was even setting up our own forum! (Which I can remove now...)

Put we are alive! O, and also still reading the diplomacy rules...

	05-04-2001 23:15									#66
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Also I have got the Diplomacy rules (actually many days ago already, but haven't posted earlier) and I have also read them. They look nice and simple, but still with really many possibilities for strategies, and it really emphasizes diplomacy, as its name suggests. I'm looking forward for the game with interest. Thanks, S.Kroeze! It's really great that you have made us familiar with this great game.

About being busy, tell me about that... actually I'm not terribly busy, but still haven't had very much time for ggs. Though my enthusiasm has gone nowhere. But well, quite soon situation should be better, when my school ends. Though after that I will have to work 8 hours a day, but at least I will have regular free time, which allows me to plan my time for ggs work better.

	06-04-2001 00:19									#67
	Put an end to popups!

B.


(I am even more busy then Leland so I only have time to write B of busy )

Truth is I work on a computer a lot nowadays. It is a nightmare to me, I always used computer exclusively for fun. So when I do the days job of editing & fixing a book for print, I am too exausted to do work for GGS. I dont like it, but thats how it is.

	07-04-2001 18:04									#68
	Suffering from ads?

Update: got my Diplomacy package. Ready.

	07-04-2001 22:02									#69
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Dear GGS'ers,

So far six of you have given me their mailing address and probably most of you will by now have received my mailing. So assuming that all of you are still willing to participate, we could almost start our game of Diplomacy. Yet because playing the game with seven players is a lot more interesting than playing it with six, my proposal is to wait a little longer and hope that some one of our crew is willing to come forward and make our team complete. When no one would be interested, I could invite someone posting on the CivIII Forum. There are many nice and intelligent people over there and one may assume that most of them would enjoy a game representing the struggle between the Great Powers of Europe. When any one of those already participating in the game has any objection to this solution please tell me, because we have to decide quickly!

Sincere regards,

S.Kroeze
[This message has been edited by S. Kroeze (edited April 07, 2001).]

	08-04-2001 04:40									#70
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Well, good to hear you are alive.

I hope that the UI is coming along nicely, and I really look forward to discuss the design issues here, when you and I have more time to do so.

I have also recieved the Diplomacy rules, and although I have not had time to read it all from what I have skimmed through it looks like a really interesting and fun game.

I support S. Kroeze's proposal to wait a bit longer. And perhabs playing a game with a Civ3 poster could be great fun too. Some of them are in fact quite intelligent. Alternatively I could ask Harel if he would be interested. What do you say?

------------------
"I have an idea for a movie. It's about a killer robot driving instructor, that travels back in time for some reason."
- Homer J. Simpson

GGS Website
[This message has been edited by The Joker (edited April 07, 2001).]

	09-04-2001 12:39									#71
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Both options are fine to me!

	20-04-2001 05:17									#72
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

About Diplomacy

I have one simple, yet for me unanswered question: What about the attacks in the game? Does the unit 'win' with the most support? And with equal support, may both not move? Please explain this to me... (Kroeze??)

Elmo

	21-04-2001 09:19									#74
	Tired of ads?

HURRAY!!!

Our Diplomacy team is finally complete, so we will start this game immediately! Hurray!!!

Gamestart: "SANGLOTS"

April 2001
GM: S. Kroeze
Deadline: 29th April 2001, 8.00AM (GMT)

ENGLAND: Amjayee
FRANCE: The Diplomat, our honoured guest
GERMANY: ElmoTheElk
ITALY: VetLegion
AUSTRIA-HUNGARY: TempLeland
RUSSIA: The Joker
TURKEY: Chrispie

GM-all players: Welcome all! I suppose you will be able to contact one another by e-mail or otherwise. Any questions can best be answered here in this Off-topic thread. Do not hesitate to put questions about rules or other aspects of this game! I'll try to answer them all.

IMPORTANT: Please do not send your orders on the last minute! When they arrive too late -whatever the cause- your units will hold. When you foresee problems with a deadline, please inform me as soon as possible and NOT afterwards. It is allowed to send in temporary orders and to change them later, sending a new list of orders. In that case, please make it clear that those new orders do replace the original set.

Players are also allowed to add press/comments to their orders. Yet it remains within the discretion of the GM to edit or shorten such press. Please make it clear to whom a statement is addresed! (e.g. GM-World)

And: PLEASE do not forget that Diplomacy is a game, that is supposed to be fun!
Good luck! That the best may win!

Best wishes,

S.Kroeze

[This message has been edited by S. Kroeze (edited April 20, 2001).]

	21-04-2001 09:37									#75
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Cool! Hmm I'm England, interesting. I have the email of the others, what's The Diplomat's email address? And let's try to role-play this a little. Let's try to get some formality to the diplomatic negotiations. I will be sending email with "Diplomatic post" as the subject.

	21-04-2001 17:03									#77
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

good we started, so what do we do now?
negotiations period means I think we send emails around and arrange pact(s) and agreements, etc and then we send you the moves, right?

Italy ... interesting. Question: Tunis is not already taken? It is kind of my territory, I just have to take it?

	21-04-2001 18:48									#78
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

hmmm, Turkey, I knew that would happen lol.

Vet, it's only part of your nation in terms of giving some structure to the map, anyone (other than me cos I'm gunna get hammered ) can take control of it - I think. So in otherwords, you are right.

Of course, I'm gunna be busy now, cos I'm trying to bring a basic MapManager into the program, and turn it all into one big .exe, so if I lose, that's my excuse, okay?

	21-04-2001 19:09									#79
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Yeah, I got that now ... hey everybody, Tunis is MINE, mamma mia
Although I would feel at home in Austria, since where I now live is there (not that I am implying anyting Leland), under the name of Trieste too, the most unimportant village in the area

question: are all moves public? no fog of war?

chrispie: no exuse better than that

	21-04-2001 20:16									#80
	Increase Your PM Length

Tunis is not already taken? It is kind of my territory, I just have to take it?

For the time being, Tunis is neutral territory, like Holland, Spain, Sweden, etc. One can conquer it by occupying it after Fall moves.

Are all moves public? no fog of war?

When the deadline has passed, I will make all moves publicly known by sending you an e-mail with all orders. No fog of war, neither dissemination delay!
There are variants of this game where moves are kept secret, but not so in the regular game.

Good luck!

	23-04-2001 04:10									#82
	Suffering from ads?

I was also thinking of publishing the mail adresses in one place, but then I thought: Hey, they already are, on the site! See http://www.ggs.f2s.com/index.php?pa...php&opt=Contact . And Diplomat's mail adres is in a previous post here.

Yeah, Holland is neutral now. Not for long though I think! (One small step for blabla...)

btw: first question: let's say one of my first moved is F Kie-Hol, that means I earn a new unit (since I captured a suplly center). Where is the new unit created and where should the original be? And is the new unit an army or a fleet? Or am I totally wrong here? Hope not...

Elmo

PS. So I guess we have so start mailing each other making pacts now right?

	23-04-2001 05:10									#83
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

first question: let's say one of my first moved is F Kie-Hol, that means I earn a new unit (since I captured a suplly center). Where is the new unit created and where should the original be? And is the new unit an army or a fleet? Or am I totally wrong here? Hope not...

No, your general impression is quite right on this issue!

Each years consists of two seasons: Spring moves and Fall moves.
After each Fall season, the numbers of supply centres owned by every power are counted. Some powers who have expanded their territory, can build one or more new units during Winter. New units can only be built in one of the three (or four for Russia) original home supply centres, provided they are at that particular moment unoccupied and not under the control of a foreign power. The player may decide where the new unit(s) is/are placed and whether he builds an army or a fleet.
Players should send a list with their build/removal orders simultaneous with their Fall moves. This are quite important decisions to make.
(you can find this on page 8 of the rules, section XIII.2)

Good luck to you too!

[This message has been edited by S. Kroeze (edited April 22, 2001).]

	23-04-2001 19:34									#84
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

my mail account died folks, so I canot read mail
they will probably fix the server during the day...

btw, Joker, is your mail ok? as you know it gets flooded every few weeks (sourceforge informs us of this ), so is it ok to send mail there? perhaps you should open a web based account so you can access it from whichever exclusive holiday place you are at the moment and it wont be subscribed to everything, so no flooding?

S. Kroeze, I am sending you my moves as soon as my mail is fixed (today or tommorow)

	23-04-2001 22:32									#85
	Remove this text

Vet,

Actually I do use webmail (otherwise I would not be able to use mail at all these six months), so I don't hope Markos or Dan read this...

And although it might seem flooded to Sourceforge (which I am perfectly hapy about, since I do not have time to read all the mail coming from there) it is still perfectly possible to send normal (meaning mails filling less than ~2 MB) mails to me. So by all means do so!


Elmo,

You don't control more than 3 or 4 supply centers at the beginning of the game. All regions with a black dot in them are supply centers. The other ones are not, and so you don't get a unit for them. When you conquor more supply centers you will get more units, which you can place in one of your original supply centers if these are not occupied by a unit already, and if they are under your control.

And yes, we will play a turn a week.

------------------
"All that monsters fear is the day."
- Kashmir

GGS Website

	23-04-2001 22:44									#86
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Argh!

I can't find Leland's email adress anywhere! It's not in his profile. Can someone help me?

------------------
"All that monsters fear is the day."
- Kashmir

GGS Website

	23-04-2001 23:25									#87
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Still don't understand 1 thing: If you have 3 units at the beginning of the game (4 for Russia), then how can you contol more then 3 (4 for Russia) supply centers?

Jokers answer is correct: Once conquered, a centre may be left vacant for as long as the player sees fit and the occupying Great Power may continue to maintain one unit on account of this supply centre so long as this centre is not occupied by another Great Power at the close of a Fall move. Note that occupation occurs only during the Fall move!
(page 8; section XIII.1)

Do we play 1 turn a week?

I think this is a pleasant game tempo. Most of you proposed something quicker, but I guarantee you that you'll need some time for negotiations. So as long as nobody disagrees fiercely, I think we should try how one season (Spring or Fall) every week works.

I can't find Leland's email adress anywhere! It's not in his profile. Can someone help me?

TempLeland gave me this address: jjakonen@mail.student.oulu.fi
I hope he allows me to pass it on.
[This message has been edited by S. Kroeze (edited April 23, 2001).]

	24-04-2001 00:27									#88
	Get a bigger avatar today!

OK. We had a little misunderstanding here. I meant, if a SS is left vacant, is it still under your control. But I guess so. And also, I propose that the game leader will always refister which SS is controlled by which emire, if needed.

To simplefy things, I made a search for all data we might need. Here it is:

DIPLOMACY FORUM POST
--------------------
Post: http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum38/HTML/000102-3.html

PLAYERS
-------

ENGLAND         Amjayee       amjayee@kolubus.fi

FRANCE          The Diplomat  jahoffmann@bsu.edu

GERMANY         ElmoTheElk    elmo@theelk.com

ITALY           VetLegion     simun.selak@fsb.hr

AUSTRIA-HUNGARY TempLeland    jjakonen@mail.student.oulu.fi

RUSSIA          The Joker     bjarkestaunolsen@forum.dk

TURKEY          Chrispie      chrisf_b@hotmail.com

Game Master     S. Kroeze     kroeze62@zonnet.nl

Alb	Albania

Ank	*Ankara

Arm	Armenia

Bal	Baltic Sea

Bar	Barents Sea

Bel	*Belgium

Ber	*Berlin

Bla	Black Sea

Boh	Bohemia

Bot	Gulf of Bothnia

Bre	*Brest

Bud	*Budapest

Bul	*Bulgaria

Bur	Burgundy

Con	*Constantinople

Den	*Denmark

Eas	Eastern Mediterrean

Edi	*Edinbrough

Eng	English Channel

Gal	Galicia

Gas	Gascony

Gre	*Greece

Hel	Helgoland Bight

Hol	*Holland

Ion	Ionian Sea

Iri	Irish Sea

Kie	*Kiel

Liv	*Liverpool

Liv	Livonia

Lon	*London

Lyo	Gulf of Lyon

Mar	*Marseilles

Mat	Mid-Atlantic

Mos	*Moscow

Mun	*Munich

Naf	North Africa

Nap	*Naples

NAt	North Atlantic

Nrg	Norwegian Sea

Nth	North Sea

Nwy	*Norway

Par	*Paris

Pic	Picardy

Pie	Piedmont

Por	*Portugal

Pru	Prussia

Rom	*Rome

Ruh	Ruhr

Rum	*Rumania

Ser	*Serbia

Sev	*Sevastopol

Sil	Silensia

Ska	Skagerrak

Smy	*Smyrna

Spa	*Spain

StP	*St. Petersburg

Swe	*Sweden

Swi	Switz. (Impassable)

Syr	Syria

Tri	*Trieste

Tun	*Tunis

Tus	Tuscany

Tyr	Tyrolia

Ukr	Ukraina

Ven	*Venice

Vie	*Vienna

Wal	Wales

War	*Warsaw

Wes	Western Mediterranean

	24-04-2001 02:00									#89
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Excellent work Elmo!! BRAVO!

Of course you can use these abbreviations, yet I was raised in another 'tradition' that used other abbreviations for the sea provinces than this list. For the time being you can decide for yourself which of the two you want to use.

ADS  -  Adriatic Sea

AEG  -  Aegean Sea

BAL  -  Baltic Sea

BAR  -  Barents Sea

BLA  -  Black Sea

EMS  -  Eastern Mediterranean

ENC  -  English Channel

GOB  -  Gulf of Bothnia

GOL  -  Gulf of Lyon

HEL  -  Helgoland Bight

ION  -  Ionian Sea

IRS  -  Irish Sea

MAO  -  Mid-Atlantic Ocean

NAO  -  North Atlantic Ocean

NTH  -  North Sea

NWS  -  Norwegian Sea

SKA  -  Skagerrak

TYS  -  Tyrrhenian Sea

WMS  -  Western Mediterranean

Lpl  -  Liverpool

Lvn  -  Livonia

Nor  -  Norway

	24-04-2001 06:09									#90
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Oops, sorry about that email address... this is supposed to be a temporary account (hence the temp suffix ) so I haven't put in any contact information. I've been disconnected from the project for quite a time now, so perhaps when I return I'll pick an entirely new account again... just to symbolize a fresh start, sort of.

Anyway, in the above email address list amjayee's seems to be incorrect: it is amjayee@kolumbus.fi and not amjayee@kolubus.fi.

What kind of pieces/markers are you guys using to play by the way?