 |
| |
|
|
|
That's pretty much how I understood it. The diplomacy phase goes on all the time, but it's probably a good idea not to leave the negotiations to the last minute. Also, I dare suggest that players follow etiquette and don't talk about their moves until they are made public (I mean, it's more polite to say "I will support you in the eastern front" and not do it than to say "I have already given my support to you" and not do it. If lying is allowed, we can at least be courteus about it.  ) or discuss retreats.
Speaking of which, how will the retreats be handled?
|
|
| |
|
|
amjayee
|
 |
Jyväskylä, Finland
Oct 1999
time: 07:14
|
|
Hmmm, quite an active thread, this one.
I was thinking; should we ditch the abbreviations and refer to spaces, attacks, convoys etc. with their real names? It would look more like real diplomacy that way. This would prevent confusions, and also in an email game it really doesn't slow things down or anything.
I'm having real fun examining the map and figuring out the best strategies. This is a cool game! Also negotiating is fun.
VetLegion: That message was my first diplomacy message, so I got a little over-excited, especially with my titles.  In future, I will be a little less formal and refer to myself only as the King of England. But anyway, I think an important part of the game is to role-play a little and negotiate formally.
Forgot to say: I agree with Elmo about everyone writing a description of their moves. Furthermore, I think it would be great if everyone writes a short summary of what they have been up to during each turn; who they have negotiated with, what results they got, what were there true intentions. This way we would get a little history book of our game. Perhaps the players could send their summaries to gamesmaster after the deadline of each season? And saving emails is a good idea too, I have an own folder for my diplomacy emails. After the game, perhaps also the sent emails could be published... I think that way we could learn a lot.
And welcome, The Diplomat!
[This message has been edited by amjayee (edited April 24, 2001).]
|
|
| |
|
|
|
S. Kroeze
|
 |
the Hague, the Netherlands, Old Europe
Dec 1999
time: 05:14
|
|
Welcome Diplomat!
We are all most happy that you were willing to join our game. Thank you!
During the diplo phase, everybody talks to each other, making deals and such. Then, during the move phase, we send our moves to the GM who sorts them out and posts the outcomes. right?
How do we know when the diplo phase ends?
Diplomacy was originally invented to be played face to face. During such a game the GM will inform the players that the diplomacy period has ended. From that moment diplomacy and other conversation are not allowed any longer as all players write down their moves.
Of course when played by mail or e-mail it is impossible to end the diplomacy period formally, so players can negotiate as long as they think it still useful, till the last minute or beyond. Of course at some point these negotiations are no longer meaningful. It is my intention to observe the deadlines most strictly. Yet it is always possible that very compelling reasons will cause a GM to make an exception.
I wouldn't recommend anyone to reveal his orders before. As long as you haven't received my game report and the adjudication nothing is final.
Speaking of which, how will the retreats be handled?
When there is a possibility that any or several of your units will be dislodged, you should make a list of retreats in order of preference for each unit that is thus threatened. An example:
A Gal-Vie (retreats: 1.Bud 2.Ukr 3.Sil 4.War)
When forced to retreat the GM will work through this list: Is a retreat to Budapest allowed? To Ukraine? Into Silesia?
When there is no empty adjoining province on the board to which the rules allow the unit to retreat, the unit is disbanded. In this example, when this army could not retreat to Budapest, nor to Ukraine, Silesia or Warsaw, it would be disbanded, even when it could have retreated to Bohemia or Rumania. Probably the player who made these orders didn't desire this to happen. A player may choose to disband a unit rather than retreat it.
When you don't give retreat orders -accidentally or deliberately- a dislodged unit will always be disbanded.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
VetLegion
|
|
S. Kroeze,
ok, I get it. Thanks for map correction, that is quite useful...
amjayee,
lol, but I like formalities. The way I see it it not only spices up the game, but provides a necessary "role playing" element. When King of Italy backstabbes his dearest ally I want it to be clear that it is him (doing it for the benefit of his realm) and not Šimun nor VetLegion, ie I do not do backstabbing in real life that much
You all may think I am exaggerating, but I have played games of Risk in which same things happen, and people can get very irritated with each other ... it usualy clears over a beer or two or three
I think I can see this game in a few turns and I dont want anyone holding grudges against me after it is over.
Compare imaginary text, in amjayee usual style  :
from amjayee, to VetLegion
yo dude! howz things? 3v3rything O.K here, gunna conquer the europe s00n
S0, say me n33ds Kiel thing, u 0K with that? If u n0t, hey Im gunna kill ya anyways, s0 d0 w3 have a deal? ( & dontcha think ch3ating my ass, I gonna h4ck your machine be4 u say GGS )
with this, more formal effort:
from King of England, Scotland, Wales, Emperor of India ... etc, etc
to King of Italy
Greetings your majesty!
We hope you are going strong! We ourselves as you may know ... bla, bla
I like the later more, and I will do so in my posts. I have never played diplomacy before so maybe our GM could tell us how it is usually done in email games?
by some chance, I also proposed GM to use full names of provinces to avoid confusion.
Joker,
you havent got it? weird, ok, I ll send it again (though things have changed a bit now, heh)
|
|
| |
|
|
|
amjayee
|
|
Jyväskylä, Finland
Oct 1999
time: 07:14
|
|
I found a really swell software for making siplomacy plans. It's called WarRoom, and it's excactly what the name implies; a complete, well working official Diplomacy map, with some cool interactive functions. Also, you can place units freely on the map, move them around, and even give the units orders and then resolve the moves. A really nice package, it gives me a feeling of a real leader of a nation in war. Get it here: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/Re...en/WarRoom.html
I will try to write a short summary of my actions after each turn; that way, it is easier to remember what really happened. Other's don't have to do the same, but it would be good. And what Vet said is true; we must try to remember that this is a game, and also quite stringly a role-playing game. Myself, I've assumed a role which I think suits best my situation, and try to play that role; it's not what I really am. I'm not so proud in reality.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
VetLegion
|
|
glad we agree
amjayee, great program! especially for conflict resolution an pieces. I ran a simulation and found out quite a few things.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
S. Kroeze
|
|
the Hague, the Netherlands, Old Europe
Dec 1999
time: 05:14
|
|
Dear belligerents in "SANGLOTS",
It has become clear to me, there are some problems with writing down support orders correctly.
Basically there are two different types of support orders:
1. Defensive support
A or F in province Q stands, A or F in province R S A/F Q stands
In this case the A or F in R should -according to the rules- be able to move to province Q
Example: A War sta, A Mos S A War sta
2. Offensive support
A or F moves from P - Q , A/F R S A/F P - Q
In this case the A or F in R should -according to the rules- be able to move to province Q
Example: A War - Ukr, A Mos S A War - Ukr
So you are always giving support to one designated unit -moving or holding-, not to a province!
Sincere regards,
S.Kroeze
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
S. Kroeze
|
|
the Hague, the Netherlands, Old Europe
Dec 1999
time: 05:14
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by amjayee on 05-06-2001 09:00 AM
S.Kroeze: I noticed there were couple of orders that failed because of this kind of mistake. I was thinking, perhaps those orders should be accepted this one time, and the players should be more careful in the future? As far as I noticed, the orders are quite clear. What do you others think?
I know that F Rum S A Bul fails, because it should have been stated F Rum S Austrian A Ser-Bul, and it's hard to see why Russia hasn't understood how to state the support order; the rules are clear. I know it's hard for you as GM to accept this kind of orders. But I think the order is clear enough, and doesn't contain any chance for misunderstanding, so I think it should be accepted? Its consequences are after all quite significant. It doesn't really matter me much, but I think this one should be accepted, and next time players need to be more careful. Perhaps we should vote on this?
|
TempLeland:
The Russian order "F Rum S A Ser-Bul" is missing the nationality of the unit
he is supporting. However, I'd like to refer to rule VII.4: "An badly
written order, which nevertheless can have only one meaning, must be
followed". In my opinion, there is no mistaking that order to any other, and
it should have been carried out.
As the GM you are the final authority, of course, but I hope you will at
least take my swift appeal into consideration.
I wrote in the Spring 1901, game report:
IMPORTANT: When supporting or convoying a unit of another nation, this GM will only accept orders in which the nationality of that supported or convoyed unit is stated explicitly. An example using the present situation of the game:
ENG : A Wal - Spa, F ENC C A Wal - Spa
FRA : F MAO C (ENG) A Wal - Spa
As GM I should guard the interests of all players, which include Russia and Turkey!
Of course I knew from many years of experience that this sort of problems would arise sooner or later. So it was most intentionally that I wrote my warning with Spring 1901 orders. We will never know for sure whether Joker made this 'mistake' by accident or 'deliberately'. I do not believe in deciding this sort of issues by 'democratic' means. Turkey and its allies will probably vote one way, Austria and its allies will vote the other way. I do not want to force the Joker to take sides in the current situation. Now he can give Austria one explanation and Turkey another explanation!
In Diplomacy this sort of tricks are common practice, which is one of the reasons it is such a unique game.
Likewise we will probably never know for sure whether the Chinese embassy in Belgrade was bombed accidentally or deliberately!
Best wishes and good luck to you all!
S.Kroeze
|
|
| |
|
|
|
S. Kroeze
|
|
the Hague, the Netherlands, Old Europe
Dec 1999
time: 05:14
|
|
quote:
> S. kroeze,
>
> Since I own Spain and Portugal, shouldn't I get 2 new armies?
>
> "The diplomat"
|
Dear Diplomat,
I am sorry to disappoint you, but you will not receive any new unit.
I'll cite the rules:
"A country may have only as many armies and fleets on the board as it controls supply centres."
(Rules: page 1; section V)
At the moment France controls Paris, Marseille and Portugal = 3 supply centres.
'Why not Spain?', you will probably ask.
"Occupation of a supply centre by a Great Power occurs when one of its units is located in that supply centre after a Fall move has been played, complete with retreats....
Note that occupation occurs only during the Fall move; a unit which moves into a supply centre during Spring move and moves out of it during the Fall move of the same year does not affect the occupation of the centre"
(Rules: page 8; section XIII.1)
This is exactly what has happened: during Spring 1901 your army invaded Spain, during Fall it moved out again to Marseille. So at the end of Fall moves Spain was empty and still neutral!
But 1 question, if an A or F can support an offensive move IF this A or F can move to it, then will (for example)
A Spa - Gas
A Par S A Spa - Gas
succeed in getting support?
Since an army in Paris is allowed to move to Gascony, this support order
A Par S A Spa - Gas, is entirely possible and within the rules of the game.
It doesn't matter that Paris doesn't border Spain.
(Of course this support -like any support- can be cut, miswritten etc.)
A Par S F MAO - Gas is also a possible order.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
VetLegion
|
|
Everyone, sorry for missing the turn!! I went away from the city to the countryside on 2. may and I just returned, and there was no internet there. I was supposed to be there a day, I would have informed you all, but this was quite not planned by me 
Sorry if I messed up any of your diplomatic plans (heh, seems I messed up myself best ). I certainly havent lost interest!
I see some dispute here, just give me a day to catch up, I am not really sure what is happening? My armies havent moved, havent built anything (sigh, Tunis ) but I hope I can still play? Or have I become Neutrals because I havent submitted the move? I hope I havent, I d like to continue ... my seem weak, but three Italian armies are as good as any six others!
Once again, sorry, but this was totaly unplanned
|
|
| |
|
|
|
S. Kroeze
|
|
the Hague, the Netherlands, Old Europe
Dec 1999
time: 05:14
|
|
I see some dispute here, just give me a day to catch up, I am not really sure what is happening? My armies havent moved, havent built anything (sigh, Tunis ) but I hope I can still play? Or have I become Neutrals because I havent submitted the move? I hope I havent, I d like to continue
Dear VetLegion,
I am glad to observe you are still alive and willing -and hopefully able- to pursue our game. When you will henceforth respect the deadline you can play on as if nothing happened.
Yet since NMRs are truly a disaster and most damaging to this game for the other players, I will be compelled to take measures when the same player makes this slip repeatedly.
IMPORTANT: When a player does not send me his moves in time twice, within a period of five seasons, I will throw him out of this game and seek a substitute!
No GM rejoices enforcing such measures, yet sadly enough they have proven to be sometimes necessary to guard the interests of the serious players.
Welcome back!
(I hope everyone will notice this warning...)
|
|
| |
|
|
|
The Joker
|
|
Copenhagen, Denmark
Aug 1999
time: 06:14
|
|
Ok, my mailserver should be up and running again.
So S. Kroeze, if you could please send me the turn stats again it would be great.
And the rest of you, if you have sent anything to me the past few days then I have not recieved it. So it would be great if you would try sending it again soon. Thank you!
BTW I am home this weekend, and Friday too, due to a national holiday. So I will try to do some GGS work then. And I hope you are working as much as possible on it as well.
------------------
"All that monsters fear is the day."
- Kashmir
GGS Website
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:14.
Apolyton Time is 00:14. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
24-04-2001 09:36
|