17-02-2000 10:10									#1
	Your first 5 advances? Support Apolyton

Assuming I get the basics in the beginning (roads, irrigation), I seem to follow the same starting pattern every time and I was wondering if everyone goes a similar route or drastically differently. My path follows:
1. Alphabet
2. Code of Laws
3. Ceremonial Burial
4. Writing
5. Pottery

My goal is always a space ship.

	17-02-2000 10:11									#2
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Sorry, before everyone jumps on me, I do go for Monarchy the moment it becomes available.

	17-02-2000 10:52									#3
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In the ToT fantasy game, it's not so cut and dried. First, Sorcerors defend cities very well early in the game, so there is no need to build walls until one has developed some production capability. Therefore masonry (=pottery) can often be deferred.

Some tribes have a really important military unit to get into play early in the game, and as soon as they make an advance not needed for monarchy, they must go for that unit.

Some tribes are more research-oriented, and instead head for the research- and democracy- related advances.

There is a race to get trade, because the Wonder it allows yields the only hero unit in the game (a very powerful unit for early game combat). However some tribes cannot trade at all, and the hero is more important to some than others, so the trade advance may be made very early or deferred.

- toby


------------------
toby robison
criticalpaths@mindspring.com

	17-02-2000 10:52									#4
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MY olde...... if my land is plush i will do that route as you have a good chance for phil first..... otherwise i got horse, ceremonial, COL, alpha, monarchy, then bronze

	16-02-2000 23:28									#5
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Hmmm …. Maybe this is where I can really improve my game. I go for Bronze first; phalanx is either my first or second unit and I want to start on a wonder. And, depending on what the neighborhood looks like, I might want to get Horseback pretty soon - to explore and chase goody huts. So I guess that means slipping Pottery and maybe Ceremonial Burial or Writing a little further down your list.

	16-02-2000 23:45									#6
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War4 - I agree with horses first, but how do you research COL before alpha? If you really can reel off 4 techs after horseback that end in Monarchy, I'd love to know the exact order. I usually find myself researching writing or bronze along the way.

	16-02-2000 23:58									#7
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Cool, another list.

Like everything else in CivII, there are no absolutes. The researching of advances (assuming none at the start) depends upon your ultimate goal and somewhat on your starting location. Also, you have to factor in what the program gives you to research - detours are very frequent, and what scrolls you get from the huts. That being said, it seems that no matter what your goals are, getting to Monarchy is a must, therefore...
1. Alphabet
2. Code of Laws
3. Ceremonial Burial
4. Monarchy
5. After Monarchy, the paths differ. If I have a city at a great trade spot, then I want to start cranking up the SSC, thus Bronze with its Colossus. Otherwise, I research Masonry with its Great Wall.

Does it always go like this? No. More times than not, I have a few of these at the beginning and I always get scrolls at the huts. I remember one game I had Alphabet, Masonry and Mysticism at the start, so I went for Astronomy to get a head start. Also, if they give me Polytheism, then I just go to Literacy and Philosophy and then Monotheism. But overall, Monarchy is the first priority.

A final thought. In SP, it really doesn't matter a whole lot what your first 5 advances are - you'll get them anyway fairly soon and more times than not, by about the 5th or 6th advance, you are ahead and will stay ahead of the AIs.

	17-02-2000 00:02									#8
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first 5...

Alpha, Code, Burial, x, Monarchy

Where x = Writ, Horse, or Bronze depending on the situation.

	17-02-2000 01:10									#9
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My tech path is as follows.

First, Alpha or CB, if either is not available then I go for BW if there will be a lot of barbs, Pottery or HR if its a big continent, Pottery if I'm gonna play ICS and HR with fewer civs.

Then I will get CoL (if I got alpha) otherwise go for one of the two before. If those are not available then I will get either HR or Pottery, BW if barbs. Or Map making on watery maps.

Then I will go for the rest of the presequites for Monarchy, otherwise pottery, HR, or BW. But now if I had gotten HR and CB as my previous two techs... happened to me before... I will go for poly

Then I will get monarchy if I have the rest of the presequites then go for Writing. Otherwise just look above.

Usually I will not get mon as my 4th tech, so this is the more common place. But if I do they I get writing now, if not available the I'll go for some wonder (depends on situation)

	17-02-2000 01:44									#10
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I'm always the last into the monarchy (MP). Damn, I have mobile warfare before it offers me monarchy!

	17-02-2000 04:26									#11
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But I don't have a ghost of a chance at getting HG if I don't start a wonder soon. With all these non-BW paths, you guys don't seem to have that problem???

	17-02-2000 04:30									#12
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BlackJack... my strategy doenst require HG and i suggest you find one that doesn't as well.... the key to winning at civ is being able to adaptand not to rely on any one strat..... and i goofed earlier when i said COL before ALpha.... but if i research Horse first i can often rattle off the next four advances needed for monarchy...... not always as huts either speed or slow this process but often enough.......

	17-02-2000 05:38									#13
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1. path to monarchy
2. path to monarchy
3. path to monarchy
4. bronze, pottery, writing, map (depending on the situation)
5. Monarchy, unless the damn game won't let me select it. (else see #4)
6. Monarchy, unless the damn game is still not cooperating and I'm starting to get iritated.
7. Monarchy, and if not, now I'm really pissed.

I guess that summs it up. The only variation is if you get warrior code from a hut. (NNOOOOOOOO) and get to 8 and still not get a crack at monarchy. Then I might go for fued. This happened to me once and I didn't get to choose monarchy till my ninth tech. Needless to say, it took quite a while to recover from that start, but I did. Even got JSB in that game on top of the war academy and gl. (This was a MP game)

RAH
Flexibility is always the key.
[This message has been edited by rah (edited February 16, 2000).]

	17-02-2000 08:50									#14
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BJack: Take War4's advice and alter your strategy. Except in my very first game at Chieftain, I have never built the HG. It doesn't matter if it's a clobbering game or AC. If you concentrate on getting the happy wonders (MC, JSB), the military wonders (GW, Sun, Leo) and the science wonders (Colossus, Coper, Isaac), then you will likely win every time (in SP, of course).

	17-02-2000 09:45									#15
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At deity, single player, my first objective is monarchy. I start a bit differently,
1. ceremonial burial. I like to be able to build a temple early if necessary.
2. alphabet
3. code of laws
4. monarchy
at 2 or 3, I pick bronze if a monarchy pre-req is not available. This lets me build a useful defender, as well as a wonder to start on early. I try to switch to hanging gardens instead.

	17-02-2000 10:10									#16
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Steve, so your advice is, get all the good wonders and you'll win. Must remember that one

Graag

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You should never smoke in pyjamas, you could start a fire and burn your face

	17-02-2000 15:50									#17
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1. horsebackriding
2. alphabet
3. law code
4.-?. got no influence anymore. mostly I find the following techs under goody huts. or I get a useful tech trade offer from another civ.

	17-02-2000 21:28									#18
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Depends on the settings. With 2*mvt:
horse
alph
col
cer bur
monarchy(If I haven't pick anything else from a hutt)
With 1 * mvt:
alph
col
bronze
cer bur
monarchy

	17-02-2000 21:35									#19
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So you horseback riding fans are using them to reveal the map and get to the goody huts as soon as you can?

	18-02-2000 10:09									#20
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I always go for horseback first mainly to search for goody huts AND to scout out the enemy to possibly gain an advantage.

	18-02-2000 10:19									#21
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Graag: Your sarcasm is really dripping, you didn't get enough sleep?

If you study that list, you will see what it does NOT include: Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Oracle, King Richards and the sea wonders (as far as the early wonders). There have been numerous discussion on these, but my only point was (in response to HG) that those 8 wonders are, IMVHO, are the key to winning (unless you're on an island).

	17-02-2000 23:24									#22
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MyOlde - horsemen are useful for exploring, but also for picking off barbarians. At deity, the barbs have a 150% attack factor, so your poor little fortified phalanx doesn't stand a chance against a chariot. Since your cities will spot barbs two squares away, you can use your horses to pick off barbs before they can attack. Incidentally, I'm convinced that barb archers have a defense of 1 at deity/raging, so don't hesitate to attack them, too.

Edit: I failed to use this strategy properly in my current game, and lost 2 cities to barbarians!
[This message has been edited by DaveV (edited February 17, 2000).]

	18-02-2000 01:53									#23
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ah if only horseback let you build a wonder of the world *sigh*.... but alas it doesn't but the movement and attack factor i now believe outweighs the defensive and wonder building ability of Bronze Working. However, there have been many times when i get the advanced tribe or nomads and wish i had taken bronze so that the capital could start a wonder earlier...... if you must have HG then take bronze otherwise i say go with the horse... especially if the terrain is flat as after all, realestate is the most important thing in a small MP map .....

	18-02-2000 03:30									#24
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DaveV,

War4ever, I completely agree. A good player who knows that mountains are harder to cross than plains (unlike me in days of civ1) can discover huge amount of map with horses.

I am currently trying a game in which I will not open a single hut before monarchy.
I never could resist them, but as someone said, flexibility is key

	18-02-2000 05:00									#25
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Dave V
Interested in your comments about Barbs.
Playing "Hot Seat" in MP, (Deity/Raging Hordes) Barb Archers seem to fail against fortified Warriors, when only two or three cities are built.
Is the 150% attack factor in play from the early part of the game?
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SG (2)

	18-02-2000 06:45									#26
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VETLEGION.... yes i used to go the way of the phalanx which is still a good way to go.... but sometimes if the terrain looks right i go the way of the horse..... neither is better, just different, and difference is good.... i played civ1 the other day..... man o man it was slow..... but still enjoyable but i like civ2 better now

	18-02-2000 16:07									#27
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Hey War4,
Have I misunderstood you or have you just made an error?

quote: if you must have HG then take bronze otherwise i say go with the horse

	18-02-2000 17:31									#28
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SG2 - I suspect that at least one player, and possible all players, are treated as an AI during the barbs' turn in hotseat, so the barbs may actually have a penalty on attack (I've noticed that the AIs seem to have much more success against the barbs than I do). If you stand around in a (deity level) single-player game and wait for the barbs to attack, they'll hammer you.

	18-02-2000 18:21									#29
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Dave V - Thanks - I see the difference now.
The Barbs are much more active in "Hot Seat"
- perhaps three times more, so the extra "AI" defence is a compensating factor.

In an ordinary game, I echo your advice about killing Barb Archers - found that out the hard way!
-----------
SG (2)

	18-02-2000 18:28									#30
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Only those sciences that lead to Monarchy...
If one isn't offered, then writing, bronze, pottery, or horse... In that order, but modified depending on the game situation.

Getting out of despotism is key... after that, it depends on my situation