22-05-2001 04:43									#1
	On the announcement that posts in OT wont increase post count Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Mark and Dan, nice job with the upgrade.

This is a policy decision that has been debated for years, as you well know, so I'm not going to to rehash all the arguments. But as an active member of the on-topic civ2 boards I would like some reassurance that this is not going to lead to an invasion of OT spammers on those boards, and I'd like to know how you would respond to such an action.

	22-05-2001 04:48									#2
	Re: On the announcement that posts in OT wont increase post count Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Andrew Livings I'd like to know how you would respond to such an action.

we'll do our best(dont we always?)

	22-05-2001 04:57									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

This was my concern when I first found out (I even started a poll in the test forums).

However, I think that ever vigilante bannings and closing of threads in the On Topic forums can combat this.

Do I agree with doing this? No (Hey, wait I'm a Deity, what do I care ), but I will back the decision made by MarkG.

	22-05-2001 05:34									#4
	I Do Not Agree Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Markos, et al.:

I come to Apolyton both for Civilization discussions and the content on the Off Topic Forum. What's the point of not allowing post-count increases in the OTF? That's discrimination against *both* those who spam and those who come for serious discussion.

Since this policy is in effect, I formally make a request to ABOLISH all non-administrative title systems and post-counts at Apolyton. All that should remain are registration dates. That way, all of Apolyton will be treated just like those who frequent the OTF.

CYBERAmazon

	22-05-2001 06:36									#5
	I also disagree Full PM-box? Change here!

I really do not appriciate this decision. Off-topic debates are the only reason I ever post in this place, but oh well. I'll move on.

	22-05-2001 06:49									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Well, don't you agree that it cuts down on SPAM? And I have no problem with recognizing On Topic posts over Off Topic ones.

	22-05-2001 06:56									#7
	SPAM = FUN Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

So what? The entertainment value of good spam is of far greater value than tax on the server I'm sure.

	22-05-2001 07:17									#8
	I Don't Spam Increase the size of your Attachments

Imran:

Thus I feel as if I'm paying the price for those who do spam. This is like setting a 10,000 acre forest fire to get rid of the pine beetle infested acre of trees.

If Markos, DanQ and the moderators wish to control spam, I have no problem with that. Just keep your targeting paramaters focused on the spammers, not those who come to Apolyton for genuine Civ discussion and OTF contributions — who, unfortunately, are apparently collateral damage in this decision.

What? Weren't bannings, PCRs and popular pressure sufficient to keep spammers under control?

CYBERAmazon

	22-05-2001 07:19									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Why do you feel you are paying any price? Is post count that important to you?

Remember the Off Topic was added grudingly by Mark and Dan and I don't think they've ever really liked it. They want post counts to count for posters who post on topic.

That is their decision...

	22-05-2001 08:27									#10
	Some Pointers ... Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Why do you feel you are paying any price? Is post count that important to you?

I don't give a damn about my title or post count per se. I've been here over a year and I've reached the "rank" of "Prince." If I had spammed or let my ego get caught up by titles, I would've been borderline "Emperor" by now.

I'm not happy because this targets an entire forum that, ostensibly, is a part of the Apolyton community. IOW, everyone who contributes to that place is, in effect, being told, "You are no longer in Civ country." That's poppycock. Civ is the type of strategy game that brings in quite a few intelligent and verbose people who genuinely like meeting others who share the similar pleasure of Civing. It's only natural, IMHO, that a lot of them might also be interested in talking about current events, politics, economics and whatnot. The OTF provides that outlet w/o disrupting the actual Civ forums.

So, yeah, those of us who take the time to peruse the OTF have just as much Civ "blood" in us, if not more so, than those who never venture beyond the Civ II forum(s) or Alpha Centauri or Call To Power II.

quote: Remember the Off Topic was added grudingly by Mark and Dan and I don't think they've ever really liked it. They want post counts to count for posters who post on topic.

That was before my time at Apolyton. I honestly don't see why they wouldn't like the OTF. Hell, I play Civ II (got a game going right now) and post in on-topic forums. But I also post in the OTF and see this decision as a sucker punch to the stomach precisely because the entire forum is affected.

If the OTF is causing that much serious grief, get rid of it. I can guarantee you that traffic will decrease, as will ad hits (which are still low, judging from the "Help Apolyton!" text that appears before the ad graphic comes in).

quote: That is their decision...

Oh, I agree. I just hope they take into account folks like me, who don't b*tch and whine at every occasion. When you hear from people like that — the ones who are usually quiet regarding admins' and moderators' decisions — then it may well be worth a look down to see if thin ice has replaced the safer, thicker ice.

CYBERAmazon

	22-05-2001 08:50									#11
	Remove this text

Can I have a link?

Where's the official word on all of this?

	22-05-2001 08:53									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Cyber... I know you hardly ever complain, or at least I have not seen it. But I don't agree with your point about being "treated" as a 2nd class citizen.

This is a bulletin board based on a game. You are not "treated" as anything. You write messages and read them. Thats it.

God forbid that Bildo29 called me a geek or something. Dam, now I can't sleep tonight or function at work tommorrow.

That is what you are worrying about. Meaningless things or trivial ones anyway, on a BB.

Yes, you make friends and meet some of them even, if you are lucky, but the only thing you should care about is how those people look at you and interact with you.

If you care about people and they care about you, then you will be treated that way. Not as a second class citizen. And if you only post in OTF (which I know you don't, but this to others that might) then it shouldn't matter at all about the post count and you should only be treated as you would anyway while there, irregardless of post count.

This is too much to be concerned about. It is not a big deal and probably won't effect how you go about viewing, reading, posting and to whom you interact with.

Just my 2 cents... trying to keep you from useless stress and high blood pressure over completely avoidable non-problems.

I did not really express myself well in this post, but my brain is mush and I am tired. I have also been real busy with little time for leisure. I apologize if anything is not clear or misrepresented.

	22-05-2001 08:55									#13
	Support Apolyton

Sneak, it's in the post about the upgrade to vbb or whatever. Where it tells you the details of the new bb features.

	22-05-2001 08:58									#14
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Hot dang cool! Beginning of the end for post count!

	22-05-2001 09:19									#15
	It's Not Personal Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by OldWarrior_42 Cyber... I know you hardly ever complain, or at least I have not seen it. But I don't agree with your point about being "treated" as a 2nd class citizen. This is a bulletin board based on a game. You are not "treated" as anything. You write messages and read them. Thats it. God forbid that Bildo29 called me a geek or something. Dam, now I can't sleep tonight or function at work tommorrow. That is what you are worrying about. Meaningless things or trivial ones anyway, on a BB.

Nearly three years ago on another board, I did take things personally. I learned my lesson then and there and now pretty much follow a philosophy similar to your own.

My current position is one that only affects me when I contribute to Apolyton. Any other time, it's off the radar screen. It's not personal either, more or less a stance based on principle and fairness.

quote: This is too much to be concerned about. It is not a big deal and probably won't effect how you go about viewing, reading, posting and to whom you interact with.

Probably not, but it doesn't resolve the "fairness" issue of the whole shebang.

quote: Just my 2 cents... trying to keep you from useless stress and high blood pressure over completely avoidable non-problems.

It's appreciated. Thanks.

CYBERAmazon

	22-05-2001 09:30									#16
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

"Why do you feel you are paying any price? Is post count that important to you?"

Easy enough to say when you're already a Deity and have a administrative title.

Who ever made this decision: Not that you'll care, but I'm outta here. This IS discrimination against the OT posters. I can't stand injustice, and this definitely fits my definition. I can't do anything about it, so I'm leaving.

I know you won't miss me. Why? Because like greedy feudal landlords, though you may own the town, but because of your attitudes towards us you are not, have not been, and never will be part of the community that lives there. You won't care one wit if that community loses a member. You are not one of us, and now you are using your right of eminent domain to trample us.

[More to follow thanks to the inane decision to limit message length]

((EDIT: My apologies, I could've sworn that it said 1000 characters.))

Last edited by bcr3 on 22-05-2001 at 10:04

	22-05-2001 09:32									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

To Cyber...

So then I am to understand it that you have just finally decided to make a point on the issue of principle.

Understandable and accepted.

Good luck.

	22-05-2001 09:43									#18
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yes, Imran, it really DOES mean that much to me to make Emperor. It's something I've been working at off and on for almost two years now. Getting a new title means that I have contributed something worthwhile to the community here. It means that my fellow posters recognize the worth of my contribution and respect me for it. You may not remember what it was like to be a newbie and have an Emperor or even a Deity reply to your thread, but I do. I had a ton of respect for the vets, and I've been here ever since because I hoped that one day I might get the same respect they do.

[Again, one more to come because of the post length policy]

((EDIT: My apologies, I could've sworn that it said 1000 characters.))

Last edited by bcr3 on 22-05-2001 at 10:08

	22-05-2001 09:44									#19
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I can't make any useful contributions to any of the other forums because I haven't played the games, except Civ2 which nobody even seems to care about anymore. But I do have opinions about politics, religion, sports, etc. In these discussions I can contribute and be useful to facilitating good debate and discussion. Essentially this policy is telling me that nobody here cares about what I think about the outside world; if I'm not willing to go out and buy all Sid's stuff so I can come talk about it, then the community doesn't want me.

If I'm not wanted, I won't stay. I'm making one last post to the OT, then I'm leaving. If anyone misses me... tell Mark and Dan.

	22-05-2001 10:22									#20
	What I said somewhere else... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

One of the admins might respond, "Apolyton is foremost a gaming forum..."

The thing is though it has evolved to more than just a gaming forum. It seems that many users don't even post in one of the on topic forums, so steps should be taken to not alienate them.

I am sure some of them don't give a rat's arse about post counts, however some do, and I don't see why they should take a back seat to the people who post in the on topic forums.

So the solution is either get rid of the non-special titles together, or all posts should be counted.

Just my 0.03 yuan.

	22-05-2001 10:43									#21
	Time Served Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

A better solution is to give the titles according to the amount of time registered here. That is the only way to be completely fair about the whole thing. That would solve everyone's problem here. Spammers wouldn't be rewarded but those that choose to stay registered here would. It would certainly be better than a group of posters feel that they were singled out.

	22-05-2001 10:59									#22
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

As i said elsewehere, simplest thing is to remove the stupid post count and titles for all, they are meaninglessanyway, the current people with deity havent necessarily posted the most meaningful posts , jus thtey have posted the most ...

So post counting on any forum simply asks for spamming, i sohuld know, i spamme dto get to king level whichj i am happy at...

	22-05-2001 11:27									#23
	Put an end to popups!

What UR, Cyber or bcr state.... based on "Principle"... is correct. I agree with them and feel that what is good for one is good for all. It should be one way or the other for everyone concerned.

What I do not agree with is whether or not people should get uptight about this or so bent out of shape that they will not let this issue go, decide to leave ... whatever. It is not so important in the way of things to effect you like that.

What I would be concerned about would be whether my local volunteer fire dept was well staffed and funded. Where my local drinking water is coming from. My taxes (countywise) etc...

I am not even silly enough to think that I would make a difference in evne bigger issues that are of more importance than ACS.

Things like alternate fuel supplies, deforestation of the worlds rain forests, destruction of our rivers, lakes and seas, basically the eco system in general... global confrontation...etc...

This issue should be decided on quickly and then let to rest.

But yes, on Principle, I agree with the aforementioned 3 posters.

	22-05-2001 13:57									#24
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I agree with you. People shouldn't get anal retentive over this

Perhaps if Markos and Dan realise that driving people away is bad for revenues for Apolyton ...

	22-05-2001 14:02									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Isn't it true that the last time something like this was done, OT posters started flooding the on-topic forums with marginally on-topic threads?

Wasn't that why it was discontinued?

	22-05-2001 14:12									#26
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Perhaps if Markos and Dan realise that driving people away is bad for revenues for Apolyton ...

actually, it's really hard to find people to buy ad space on general topic forums these days....

	22-05-2001 14:32									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Spammers will spam regardless. This is just going to create problems and *****iness...

	22-05-2001 14:36									#28
	Death to the post count! Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I think it's excellent that the Off-Topics don't count any longer. The post count is meaningless, and always was. You can have your own Icon now, so why would anyone care about the rankings anymore? Ha Ha, the spam boys are dead DEAD DEAD!!! Excellent.

	22-05-2001 15:27									#29
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Really? Intriguing. Well now Civ3 is getting closer, I was planning on making more posts around there. I suppose this is my other incentive to do so...

	22-05-2001 16:53									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

What bothers me is not this rule in itself, but this rule in combination with the rule regarding custom avatars. I don't care about some title. I DO care about being able to put a nice pic next to my name.

Ah well... Ya can't have it all I guess.