22-05-2001 18:10									#1
	NEW screensshot found by Al'Kimiya Get a bigger avatar today!

Al'Kimiry found a 'hidden' screenshot from the Gamespy review

here

As you see it's the science advisor. It's seems not finished to me with all those strange spheres with T's in it and some headers colored and others not.

Looks like the techtree will be pretty much the same as in civ2 except for a few additions like education and printing press.

	22-05-2001 18:29									#2
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Maybe the T's are depressible buttons that go to explainations of the advance. Or maybe they are just placeholders for not completed art. Hmmm...the unit art doesn't look finished at all. It looks like all the artwork are just painted sketches from some graphics program. I'd say this is just a work in progress, visually, but the tree looks like it is already in place. Yep, pretty much like Civ2, but with some new "arts" techs, as was expected by most.

	22-05-2001 18:51									#3
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Can't access it. Could you extract it and put it up as an attatchment?

	22-05-2001 19:02									#4
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Here it is as an attachment. I had to shrink it to 75% b/c of it was too big to attach.

Attachment: sciadvisorsm.jpg
This has been downloaded 698 time(s).

	22-05-2001 19:23									#5
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Well the thing is that those images are just going to be representations of the units if they are all animated and whatever, so they will probably be just standard icons...

As for what the T spheres are, hmmm, some have crosses through them. Could they refer to making something obsolete or making something available?!

	22-05-2001 19:25									#6
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Aha! The Printing Press tech is in! And I've also seen some other interesting techs: Music Theory, Military Tradition... it looks like we're gonna have a large and very comprehensive tech tree!

	22-05-2001 19:26									#7
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Hmm, if this screen shows all the advances for the middle age (22 of them), and there is to be 4 ages that will give us about 100 advances. Civ II had 90 (?), with the increase in the number of wonders, units etc one would think that Civ III would have more advances than this.





But a lot of things are bound to change so this screenshot may not be that accurate, or the different ages have different number of advances.





My guess is that the "T"'s are placeholder graphics.





Nice work Al'Kimiya, always int to see new screenshots.

	22-05-2001 20:28									#8
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22*4=88, right? That would mean less tech than in Civ2! Well, maybe they've just chosen to put less techs in Middle Ages.

Some of those techs are dead-enders, BTW. Might these be culture-increasing, considering the names (Free Artistry, etc.)?

	22-05-2001 20:37									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Stefu 22*4=88, right? That would mean less tech than in Civ2! Well, maybe they've just chosen to put less techs in Middle Ages.

I'm guessing more for the other ages, therefore I wrote 100. Seem highly unlikely there will be less advances than in Civ II.

There might also be more techs in Middle Ages than is shown in these screenshot, I hope so.

quote: Some of those techs are dead-enders, BTW. Might these be culture-increasing, considering the names (Free Artistry, etc.)?

Yep, I think I saw somewhere that some techs are required to advance to the next age, and some are optional and are there to increase culture etc.

	22-05-2001 21:18									#10
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I found another hidden screenshot, folks. It is a screenshot of the main map.

On the bottom of the map, you will notice that a worker unit has been selected (the white crossshair) and you can see the buttons for the worker. There is the button to build roads, fort, colony etc...
You can also see a native american unit.

check it at [URL=http://www.gamespy.com/asp/image.asp?/e3/civ3/image17.jpg]

	22-05-2001 21:30									#11
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It has long been suggested on this forum that each advance have ways to be improved on either through more research or by actual use. I would like to think the 'T's might be that type of improvement of each advance and the indication of how the technology was improved. Of course the actual art is not finalized and so 'T's are used for now.

	22-05-2001 21:51									#12
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat I found another hidden screenshot, folks. It is a screenshot of the main map. On the bottom of the map, you will notice that a worker unit has been selected (the white crossshair) and you can see the buttons for the worker. There is the button to build roads, fort, colony etc... You can also see a native american unit.

This should be a working link here.

If you want I could post a picture like I did of the last one.

	22-05-2001 22:06									#13
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Yes, go ahead and post the screenshot. Thanks.

Last edited by The diplomat on 22-05-2001 at 22:14

	22-05-2001 23:22									#14
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Well it all looks very promising to me.
I hope all the buttons on the playing screen don't turn it into a "click-fest", but this will probably not be the case

Keep the screen-shots coming guys.

The anticaption.....

	23-05-2001 00:02									#15
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quote: The diplomat: Yes, go ahead and post the screenshot. Thanks.

Actually I'd rather not put up the shot unless someone can't get access, b/c it makes the thread load slowly.

Good job on the new screenshot by the way.

quote: Sean: The anticaption.....

That's kind of like the antiparentheses isn't it?

	23-05-2001 00:07									#16
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Music Theory as a tech? What theory? which theory? Why is it in the 'middle ages', are they trying to refer to the beginnings of polyphony? Do they mean 'an awareness of musical theory'? Then why not Pythagoras but the middle ages? Is there a tech named 'equal temperament'??? Do we get to build composer units and get Arnold Schoenberg as a leader who can alter the course of...... Do we have dead-end techs? If so, that's good. Music Th. as a tech... Music Th. is kind of a summary-of-previous-practice, it's not a tech!!! What's happening?

	23-05-2001 00:22									#17
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quote: Originally posted by bagdar Music Theory as a tech? What theory? which theory? Why is it in the 'middle ages', are they trying to refer to the beginnings of polyphony? Do they mean 'an awareness of musical theory'? Then why not Pythagoras but the middle ages? Is there a tech named 'equal temperament'??? Do we get to build composer units and get Arnold Schoenberg as a leader who can alter the course of...... Do we have dead-end techs? If so, that's good. Music Th. as a tech... Music Th. is kind of a summary-of-previous-practice, it's not a tech!!! What's happening?

Well, it looks like the tech tree is now the "Technology and Arts" tree. What the "Arts" advancements do is enable you to increase the cultural value of your improvements, thereby expanding your borders and potentially attracting neighboring cities to join your empire. I think you are correct in interpreting music theory as 'an awareness of musical theory', which is something that changed the course of Western civilization. Music, especially written (which can only be done with 'an awareness of music theory'), created one of the major means, along with painting, of disseminating Christian thought and practice, thereby creating Western Culture as we know it. (That's the short version).

	23-05-2001 00:50									#18
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Those advisor head are so annoying. A bunch of indistinguishable white faces. I assume they are Firaxis people, but who cares, beside them.

	23-05-2001 01:46									#19
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat I found another hidden screenshot, folks. It is a screenshot of the main map. On the bottom of the map, you will notice that a worker unit has been selected (the white crossshair) and you can see the buttons for the worker. There is the button to build roads, fort, colony etc... You can also see a native american unit. check it at [URL]Second Hidden Gamespy Screenshot

Any guesses at what the various worker functions are?

	23-05-2001 02:21									#20
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Deleted

Last edited by Ralf on 23-05-2001 at 02:37

	23-05-2001 03:27									#21
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quote: Originally posted by SerapisIV Any guesses at what the various worker functions are?

If you're referring to the circles at the bottom I guess they are (not counting the empty ones, from the left): irrigation, goto?, roads, fortress, mines and disband (make colony?)

	23-05-2001 03:33									#22
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Why is it that when i click on the first screenshot in gamesspy, it sends me back to this thread?

	23-05-2001 05:18									#23
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I don't like the idea of techs being given their retrospective names. Some other worthy Apolytonite pointed out that this was a mistake made by CtP, and was one of the factors that destroyed the ambiance of the game.

Surely "Military Tradition" is a retrospective historical term. To explain this further, what Civ II called "Industrialisation", CtP called "The Industrial Revolution". An event can only truly be called a revolution after it has actively been seen to have revolutionary effects upon society. To expand, no-one sets about with the express purpose of creating a 'tradition'. Tradition is something that comes about with years of the same practices being carried out. Perhaps by persuing this tantalising Culture concept, Firaxis have lost the..ahem...'vibe' of the tech tree.

Damn, I wish whoever it was put this point forward originally would read this, and do a better job of explaining it than I have done...

	23-05-2001 06:10									#24
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this is good now we know how the tech tree works and some tech for sure.. also i think the T's could stand for the level of technology it is like two ts takes longer to research than one T technology.. or maybe it is just place holders.. the art would go after t's.. maybe

	23-05-2001 06:32									#25
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I had a thought. What if the buttons on the 2nd image were actually the advisors. I mean it seems like the images are for building like you guys said but it is just another thought because i have yet to see any type of menu. Also this looks as if it is full screan not windowed. So any one wondering, i have yet to see any windowed pics yet.

	23-05-2001 06:37									#26
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IMO, I believe the "T"s are just placeholders for the moment.

	23-05-2001 09:32									#27
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quote: Originally posted by senowen Music, especially written (which can only be done with 'an awareness of music theory'), created one of the major means, along with painting, of disseminating Christian thought and practice, thereby creating Western Culture as we know it. (That's the short version).

Well, yes you're right and that's the only way in can be implemented into the game -which is the focus of our discourse of course. But still, the point I was trying to make is (let's make an analogy): How good does it sound if we actually have SCIENCE in the tech tree? Maybe it does sound reasonable, given that we owe Science to the genius of the first Greek philosophers. Besides, in the previous games, we had techs like 'philosophy'... Also, it seems that Mus.Th. is connected to a tech named 'education'; that's good news, because it really is a tool for education, and not an unshakable guiding principle of practicing composers -the greatest ones at least-. Thus: this is OK.

The problem is, it seems that we're going to get such techs, for the sake of culture in the game, that'll be a bit too... rough approximations of what is meant by them . Of course, that's in comparison with the concreteness of Iron Working, of The Wheel!!!

ok, ok, this is a game.

	23-05-2001 10:00									#28
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I had another thought about the tech tree. I think that the circles w/ T are placeholds. That is nothing new. But what i think is new is that the ones w/ boxes around them are city improvements. If you look at the miliary units they don't have boxes around them. That leads me to believe that it is the improvements in boxes. Also the big circle could be a wonder King Richards Cruisade prehaps??? but if that is the case then shouldnt' there be one on Fuedisum for the Sun Tzu War wonder? I dunno what do u guys think?

	23-05-2001 17:39									#29
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quote: Originally posted by bagdar How good does it sound if we actually have SCIENCE in the tech tree? Maybe it does sound reasonable, given that we owe Science to the genius of the first Greek philosophers. Besides, in the previous games, we had techs like 'philosophy'...

Why not have something called Scientific Method? In reality this was a very important breakthrough that separated philosophy and natural science into two entirely different fields.

quote: Also, it seems that Mus.Th. is connected to a tech named 'education'; that's good news, because it really is a tool for education, and not an unshakable guiding principle of practicing composers -the greatest ones at least-. Thus: this is OK.

I had another thought about the Music Theory 'tech'. Maybe they used the terms Music Theory BECAUSE of how generic it sounds. I mean, every culture has their own musical traditions. They couldn't use something like Counterpoint or Tonality since these are Western concepts.

quote: The problem is, it seems that we're going to get such techs, for the sake of culture in the game, that'll be a bit too... rough approximations of what is meant by them . Of course, that's in comparison with the concreteness of Iron Working, of The Wheel!!!

I agree on this, but what they have done is make these cultural advancements optional. You can always move on to another age without getting the dead-end cultural 'techs', as long as they are not prerequisites to another 'tech'.

	23-05-2001 18:56									#30
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quote: Originally posted by senowen I had another thought about the Music Theory 'tech'. Maybe they used the terms Music Theory BECAUSE of how generic it sounds. I mean, every culture has their own musical traditions. They couldn't use something like Counterpoint or Tonality since these are Western concepts. ....but what they have done is make these cultural advancements optional. You can always move on to another age without getting the dead-end cultural 'techs', as long as they are not prerequisites to another 'tech'.

yes, you formulated it in the most appropriate way.

and it's certainly the most feasible way of implementing 'culture' in the game... (although it still sounds awkward )