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tniem
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Hope College
Apr 2000
time: 00:14
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I guess that means S.E. is out. At least I assume it does which is too bad. I really wanted S.E. in Civ III.
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Andreiguy
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One of the few things that I think CTP and CTP2 were better in than Civ II (yes, it's hard to admit, but there are a few) are the government types.
I especially like Theocracy, Technocracy, Ecotopia, Corporate Republic, Virtual Democracy, and (i didn't like this, I just thought it was historical), Fascism. They should all be included IMO!
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Captain
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by Divine Right
May 2001
time: 00:14
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I favour the 'build-your-own' type government that someone proposed earlier, but this is pretty much out of consideration for civ3.
But just to throw the idea out again (with some modifications)
you would select whether to combine all power into dictatorship, or to split into branches such as executive (administration, ministries), legislative (parliaments/congress/assembly), and judicial (courtrooms).
these being dependent on 'advances' such as the rule of law or 'events' like Magna Carta.
within these, you'd make more choices, just like SE from SMAC. admittedly trying to balance views will be very difficult so perhaps the best thing might just be to separate government and economic systems. Thus by a little mix and match, you could get a socialist despot, a communist democracy, or a free market monarchy.
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tniem
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Hope College
Apr 2000
time: 00:14
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quote:
Originally posted by DarkCloud
Yes. |
But I mean, has been announced or been said by Firaxis? Or is it just your (probably correct) hypothesis due to the known information?
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Ecthy
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Zhonghuà Rénmín Gònghéguó
Mar 2000
time: 06:14
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I've counted pro-arguments for SE in CIV3 often enough. I've even counted lots of arguments against that crap so many people are talking, about "cut-and-glue" etc...
tell me, what's the difference between the CIV2-democracy and a democracy that results from social engineering? eh? well?
is "+1 trade on each square, unit outside of city makes 2 citizens unhappy" etc., is it that much LESS "cut-and-glue" than exactly the same government form as a result of SE?
don't you guys get it? the old system just sucks big time... SE is more flexible, it allows more options and is also way mor realistic!! if you want a COMPLETELY realistic government model (as so many here say in order to state their critical pointtowards SE), you have to invent a new one... the old one sucks, it's a shame they're leaving out SE
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To_Serve_Man
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Albany, NY, USA
Apr 1999
time: 00:14
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I am saddened to see such little news about government types. As a student of several Philosophy types (Political, Social and Metaphysics ) The governments of Civ(insert number here from 1 to 2) were so pulled by biased and stereotypical ideas that they were not governments, they were biased views that your 8th grade history books told you.
I see Civ3 as a reformer. A game of progressive ideas and rules, unlike the earlier makes of the game. With the addition of Culture in Civ3 as it has been so plainly talked about by Firaxis employees, one can truly make governments what they are. I urge the Firaxis employees and anyone else who wants, to read the works of Hegel. a 19th cent. philosopher from Germany(actually Prussia).
It is evident that in Civilization two, many governments were not what they truly are. Communism was more of a Police State (the Ancient Greek city of Sparta comes to mind) than a classless society. Because the 'Communist' nations in the world we live in today may not be what Karl Marx had in mind, that does not mean they should be like the real life governments they replicate.
Government is a very large part of Civilization. I hope that you put more effort into the Governments of Civ3 that in past Civ games.
Another example, the REPUBLIC, is a state that tries to uphold the true meaning of JUSTICE. It has been distorted and turned into some huge Money Grubbing Capitalistic machine. Plato, the ancient Greek philosopher tried to create a master government, which would uphold his view of true Justice, and that is the Republic.
We are so easy to accept what the local news wo/man says on the six thirty news and what your history teacher told you, but there is so much more... please, take your time with government Firaxis, its a hard subject.
"Cogito, ergo sum" - Descartes
Latin - English translation: I think, there fore I am
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Geoff the Medio
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If this is slightly unrelated to the topic being discussed, sorry.
As far as I could tell, the decisions of the senate in democracy and republic in CivII were completely arbitrary. It would often force me into peace at very... illogical times... like when another civ has started a war with me, then wants peace before I can recuperate from or retalieate for whatever damage they'd done. It'd be nice if the senate considered the situation somehow... and didn't force peace when it shouldn't... (just in time to prevent me from liberating cities/striking back)
of course I could be wrong... did the senate act more reasonable for others...?
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To_Serve_Man
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Albany, NY, USA
Apr 1999
time: 00:14
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@ Serapis IV
Then what's the point of naming the governments? Just call them what they are, like Capitalistic, Police State, Kingdom. The reason they have names like Democracy and Communism is because they represent an idea. Even though that idea was not fully created in real life doesn't mean that the IDEA is gone. Make Governments what they were meant to be. There are plenty of Democracies in the real world, but that does not mean they are ALL are the same. Some have presidents, some have Prime Ministers, some have Chanclers, some have coalition governments... which abstraction would you pick then to be the Civ3 Democracy? Or instead, Firaxis can make Governments what they were truly meant to be.
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tniem
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Hope College
Apr 2000
time: 00:14
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Its too bad that SE is gone which I will assume from what I have read and what you have all said.
However, Nationalism is not a government, it is an idea in a country. So may be, I am hoping and grasping for straws here, Nationalism is a choice in S.E. that benefits your nation. When you chose the belief Nationalism over Religion or something like that your country does whatever benefits Firaxis decides. Any way it is a hope that introduction of Nationalism is not the end of S.E. that will keep me going for a few days.
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I become more and more disappointed with civ3 every time I hear more "news". Now SE is gone! Why did they bother making another civ at all?
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MagnusL
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Uppsala
Mar 2000
time: 05:14
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quote:
Originally posted by To_Serve_Man
@ Serapis IV
Then what's the point of naming the governments? Just call them what they are, like Capitalistic, Police State, Kingdom. The reason they have names like Democracy and Communism is because they represent an idea. Even though that idea was not fully created in real life doesn't mean that the IDEA is gone. |
Please note that Democracy and Communism are not mutually exclusive.. For example, a communistic country could be ruled by the people through direct-democracy..
IF there will be a "government model" (?) called "Communism" in CivIII, there should also be a "government model" called "Capitalism".. (observe that IRL neither of them is a "government model", wich Democracy is.).
BUT I think that the "government model" "Communism" should be removed entierly simply because it is not a "government model". Instead they really should have a SE system (as in SMAC)..
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25-05-2001 15:56
So I didnt mean to repeat you. Nice to see that someone shares my opinions though. I guess Firaxis is a bit afraid to use "politically incorrect" or "hot" words.
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